Call no man father...?

Non-Catholic Religions
#1

It is true that Jesus forbade his disciples to call men either rabbi, father, or teacher, but why? Perhaps context is the key to unraveling this mystery and that context is the abusive use of said titles by the scribes and the pharisees who sat in Moses’ seat:

***"The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. "**Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ "But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. “And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” *

The Pharisees were public teachers that possessed the office of Moses and it was their authoritative duty to expound the law and prophets but, according to Jesus these men were abusing their titles, such as teacher, in a self serving manner, to exalt themselves and to hypocritically (“for they say”… said Jesus… “and do not do”) - set themselves apart in a proud and ostentatious manner, loving to have the good seats at religious ceremonies and for people to refer to them as teacher, Rabbi and evidently as father just as Elisha had called Elijah,father in 2 Kings 2:12:

*“As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father!”" *

Is Jesus categorically forbidding anyone to be called rabbi, father, teacher? If so then the first thing that comes to mind is, what are all those non-Catholic teachers doing?

Or, was it because, (unlike their Father Abraham who, by his faithfulness, wore the title as a badge of humility and honor, as did others of Israel’s leaders in history) - these men had forfeited their right to refer to themselves as teacher, rabbi, father, due their blatant self-serving, self-exulting apostasy regarding the Mosaic Law, which they hypocritically professed to be keeping - that Jesus said:

"But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

Certainly Paul isn’t hypocritically claiming to be the spiritual father of the Corinthians or hypocritically referring to his spiritual ancestry as "our fathers?“What about the rich man who saw Abraham in heaven with Lazarus in his bosom, and addressed him as “Father Abraham?” Abraham’s response was not, “Do you not realize that only God the Father is to be called `father?” Rather, he replied, “Son, remember…” What about Elisha calling out to Elijah in 2 Kings 2:12: “My father! My father.”

Your thoughts?

#2

There is only ONE Father and the title cannot be designated to anyone. Surely you recognize that some (certainly not all) who are called “Holy Father” weren’t the best representives of Christ. Scripture tells me I have access to the Father through prayer and I need no mediatrix. Approaching the throne of grace requires a deep love and devotion to the TRIUNE God. Why would I need to call anyone else Father?

#3

Why? To oben the commandment of honor your father and your mother.
So what do you call your male parent?

#4

ForeverGrace;8518612]There is only ONE Father and the title cannot be designated to anyone.

Like Abraham???

Surely you recognize that some (certainly not all) who are called “Holy Father” weren’t the best representives of Christ.

Absolutely…:thumbsup:

Scripture tells me I have access to the Father through prayer and I need no mediatrix.

No need of a protestant church Pastor/teacher? Got it. :thumbsup:

Approaching the throne of grace requires a deep love and devotion to the TRIUNE God. Why would I need to call anyone else Father?

Then don’t. :slight_smile:

#5

The context of those times was essentially more tribal like.

There are other passages in the Gospels that the Lord does speak of fathers in life, and the great story of the Prodigal Son returning to his father…

The context of the use of the word ‘hate’ in that language and time was in reference to all that opposing God Himself. So, Christ is telling everyone to not look to people but to God Himself as the Source of Life and Guide.

#6

Ahhhh actually it is much more than deep love and devotion.

#7

And it is the fourth commandment that we are to honor our mother and father…which is a working of grace as well…

#8

This is silly. But if you really want to know what I call a male parent then ‘Dad’ is the answer.

But you miss the point, We are not commanded to call a man such as your pope “Holy Father” The popes can be sick with sin, just like the rest of it. Surely you don’t believe that Pope Alexander VI was worthy of the title “Holy Father” . He is just an example, there were others. Add to that, that ordained Priests are called ‘Father’ but molest children. I agree that the wicked Fathers are in a small majority, but it’s evident something has gone terribly wrong. Of course Catholics have no market on these types of behavior. Protestants are every bit as guilty. But Protestants show their primary love and devotion to God, not any man with a lofty title.

I can’t find any scripture that says we are to call certain people ‘Holy’, but I’m open to reading anything you can provide that states we are to call any man ‘Father’.

#9

Do you think “Dad” and “father” are different things? Or do you assume like some that the Bible was written in the English KJV :shrug:

#10

Is there a reason that we call priests Father, and how does this fit in with Sundays Gospel?

Blessings

Eric

#11

No He didn’t. Jesus forbade His disciples from calling any man Abba (Father). He only forbade them from calling THEMSELVES teacher or master. Secular teachers are allowed to go by that title, just as 18th Century British Naval commanders could go as “Master and Commander” of a ship.

This is important, because the word used for priests is not Abba, but Av (hebrew), Ahb (aramaic), or Pater (latin).

Abba is a combination of the greek familiar “ba” for daddy, combined with the aramaic honorific A-, which changes a word from a title to a proper name… in other words, Abba is a NAME of God.

Why are we forbidden from calling anyone this name? Well, at the time, Jesus was preaching against Caesar, who considered himself “god of the state” and wanted to be addressed as Abba Caesari (Father Caesar). This action, unlike the priesthood which derives its fatherhood from God and seeks to GLORIFY Him, instead seeks to supplant God’s fatherhood with an alternative, secular one… and thus we are forbidden from calling any man Abba (but not from calling people by the mere title “father”).

#12

Maybe someone should have searched the CA online Tracts like I just did and they would have found Call No Man “Father”?

#13

This very question was brought up by an inquirer attending our RCIA class, and my answer was the priest’s answer.

This is one of the issues brought up on the here mentioned tracts they give people to keep them away from Christ’s Church. What would they do without the Church…what merit of church would they have to offer of their own? Take out the Catholic Church, and then alot of their foundation falls out.

#14

Just as we have physical fathers, we also have spiritual fathers, our priests. And if you want biblical support for this check out the following:

Mt 19:19 - Jesus himself confirms that we should “Honor father and mother.”

Mt 3:9 - Jesus calls Abraham “father”

Acts 7:2 - Stephen calls Jewish leaders “fathers”.

Acts 21:20, 22:1 - Paul calls Jerusalem Jews “fathers”.

1 Cor 4:14-15 - Paul says “I became your father in Christ through the gospel…”

There are more, but the fact is that if we are prohibited from calling any man father, we are also prohibited form calling any man teacher. Those who try to use this as a slam against the Catholic Church miss the point of Christ’s words. Of course we have fathers and we have teachers, but God is Father and Teacher like no one else; the source of all fathers and teachers.

#15

I have noticed that most non Catholic denoms like the literal when it suits their purposes but when they get to John 6 they turn to the non literal.

Why would I call anyone else Father?..because that is a priest’s title…just like your mother’s husband.

#16

God is the Father of all creation “call no man by this name”. Jesus is our master and teacher “call no man by this title”.

The Sanhedrin (Pharisees and Saducees) abused their “seat on Moses chair” as if to command and dictate the law to be viewed as one possessing all knowledge (To father creation) and all instruction (to teach creation).

Paul and the apostles are disciples of Christ who are “sent” apostles to cooperate with God’s grace who become “Spiritual Fathers” and “Spiritual teachers” to the many called by God as overseers “Bishops”, who Paul repeatedly mentiones that He Paul became “their father” to Timothy, Titus, the Thessolonians etc.

Just as a biological Father cooperates in God’s graces to bring (create) about a biological son who becomes the new born childs “Father,”

The Catholic Church holdiing to this biblical apostolic practice in sacred Tradition Calls our spiritual Fathers who baptize us as a child of God, feed us the real true heavenly bread from heaven, confirms us in our walk with Jesus, and disciples us in the ministry of reconciliation ( confession) when we fall into temptation and sin against our “Abba-Father” in heaven.

God is the Father of creation, Jesus is our master and teacher who is the head of the Catholic Church. The apostles of Jesus and their successors in the body of Christ “Father and teach” the children of God spiritually in Jesus, with Jesus and through Jesus for Jesus is our head. Thus "no one goes before the Father of all creation except through Jesus Christ.

Read John 17 all.

Peace be with you

#17

Surely you have read the entire passage that says not to call any man father. In case you have not I will point out that it also say not to call anyone rabbi or in engelish “teacher” as you have only one Teacher. it say call no one master yet every man has the Mr. or master before his name. Look to what is being said and the the words that are used to say it.

If you have no need or we have no need for a mediatrix then why did Christ tell us to pray for one another?

#18

That’s what I thought as I was leaning toward Catholicism long ago…:thumbsup:

#19

Gabriel of 12
Paul and the apostles are disciples of Christ who are “sent” apostles to cooperate with God’s grace who become “Spiritual Fathers” and “Spiritual teachers” to the many called by God as overseers “Bishops”, who Paul repeatedly mentiones that He Paul became “their father” to Timothy, Titus, the Thessolonians etc.

Call no man teacher, and yet:

God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers… 1 Cor. 12:28

Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers. Acts 13:1

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, Epesians 4:11

For thisI was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Tim. 2:11

…for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher. 2 Tim. 1:11

Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. James 3:1

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Context is everything…:thumbsup:

#20

Amen;

1Thessolonians 2:9You recall, brothers, our toil and drudgery. Working night and day in order not to burden any of you, we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.d 10You are witnesses, and so is God, how devoutly and justly and blamelessly we behaved toward you believers. 11As you know, we treated each one of you as a father treats his children,e 12exhorting and encouraging you and insisting that you conduct yourselves as worthy of the God who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

1Timothy.1:1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,a 2 to Timothy, my true child in faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4 to Titus, my true child in our common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior.

1Corinthians 4:14I am writing you this not to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children.* 15Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.