A call by reform-minded Catholics in the German-speaking world for the church to soften its stances on homosexuality, divorce and celibacy among priests and to end its ban on women in the clergy is drawing loud criticism from conservatives. They argue the group is threatening to create a schism within the Catholic Church.
With its often more progressive stances on some controversial issues, the arm of the Catholic Church in the German-speaking world has long posed problems for Rome. Now a modern day schism is threatening the area’s priestly establishment. The brewing split exposes a rift in the German speaking world between more liberal reform minded and conservative Catholics regarding the future of the church. The stakes are high, with the number of men applying for the priesthood in decline as the church loses appeal among younger generations.
The liberal Pastors’ Initiative wants to reverse that trend, which has forced parishes to close, by making priesthood more accessible. Last June it put out a “Call for Disobedience,” calling for a rewrite of the church’s long standing views against homosexuality, divorce and celibacy.
The group wants the priesthood to be opened up to women and to allow priests to marry. It says that communion should be more accessible, including to members of other churches and to those who have divorced. They want qualified laity to be able to give sermons and believe that churches should have a stronger local presence, rather than relying on sermons from traveling “celebrity” priests. The movement has its roots in Austria, where it counts more than 400 priests and deacons as members. But it is gaining ground across Europe with sympathetic clergy in France, Ireland and other countries expressing support. The Austrian group even has its own German Facebook page, with more than 900 likes.
Maybe Germany is opting to reorganize as the Holy Roman Empire. Satanism is on a rise in germany while Catholicism is on the decline. And at the same time there is the growing secularization that grips the western world. Not looking good for the next few generations.
First, consider the source of the press release. The mass media in Germany is every bit as sensational and anti-Catholic as it is in the U.S.
I’ll bet dollars against euros that this doesn’t apply to Bavaria. The Bavarians will remain as faithful to Holy Mother Church as they did during the reformation.
Have they just pulled their heads out of the sand? Never mind the morality of it - now is not a good time to change teaching on homosexuality and make the Priesthood “more accessible.”
I admit I was wondering about that as well. However, we previously have discussed here at CAF a similar movement in Austria which claims 400 priests…roughly 10% of all priests in Austria. It was widely reported on around the world last year, and used the same phrase as in Germany: “A Call to Disobedience.”
The articles probably basically true though. After all, Austrias next-door; and there have already been lots of strange ideas from German and German-speaking individuals, eg H Kung! :eek:
Another gang of immature deliquents with toy hammers, trying to shatter the Rock.
I’ll bet dollars against euros that this doesn’t apply to Bavaria. The Bavarians will remain as faithful to Holy Mother Church as they did during the reformation
i hope youre right; but wouldnt like to bet on it. Look at Ireland, Portugal etc.
BTW, you forgot the quotation marks around “reformation”
Every single priest, bishop, or layman who issues a “call to disobedience” or who participates in disobedience needs to be disciplined in some way. If that means excommunicating them then so be it. I personally wish the Church would take a more hard line approach when disciplining people. There are also quite a few people out there who should be excommunicated such as Nancy Pelosi.
I am quite concerned about this. At a time when secular attacks on the Church have grown regular and vicious (and often use lies and distortion), it is very disappointing to see a section of clergy misguidedly condone/support them.
The leader of this movement, Herman Schuller, concerns me. He is a dynamic and accomplished individual. Previously, he was head of Cartias in Austria - where his management was lauded - then appointed as assitant to Cardinal Schoneborn (who I think selected him personally, thanks to his impressive record at Caritas).
However, the two men then fell out over “profound” disagreements and Schoneborn binned him. Schuller has now resurfaced at this head of this bogus movement.
I have wondered about his motivations and aims. It seems to me that Schuller probably thinks being a ‘mere’ parish priest is beneath him. He has been used to prominent roles - cartias, working with the Cardinal etc - and having influence.
I wonder how much of this campaign he genuinely believes in, and how much is to do with promoting Herman Schuller. I also wonder how much he is influenced by making problems for Cardinal Schoneborn, given he would have resented the Cardinal dismissing him.
I am left open mouthed to hear some (even if just a minority) Catholics think stuff like women priests, homosexuality, denigrating marriage (via saying divorce is no big deal) etc is a good idea.
I wonder, how many Protestant Churches will have to fail and vanish, before observers (inclduing misguided Catholics) learn that moving away from the model of ministry instituted by Christ is not a good idea?
If Herman wants to marry gays, have women priests, reduce the standing of marriage etc, there are literally tens of thousands of (declining) Protestant Churches he could go to, to satisfy that desire. I resent the fact that he stays, and makes trouble for us. This point also suggests he is in it for fame, whether he realises it or not.
The last German speaking priest to cause runctions in the Church was Martin Luther. The movement he started has been an abject failure globally, with protestant christianity now reduced to a legion of tiny fragments, each as irrelevant as the next. Why cannot Schuller learn from this example?
I hope and pray this issue is resolved emphatically and promptly by the Vatican. Hopefully, a discussion can resolve things, but the Church should definitely be faster to discipline dissenters and troublemakers - including all of clergy, politicians and the laity. The church is too tolerant these days, which emboldens people like Schuller.
Schullers actions are especially objectionable when you consider one of the main themes of Benedict’s Papacy has been unity. B16 has spend massive energy trying to unite christianity. The SSPX talks, Anglican ordinariates around the world, engaging with the Orthodox etc.
While he is trying to up-build and unify the Church, the likes of Schuller are busy hacking away at the foundations. It makes me sick.
The “women priests” thing is a nonsense. Men and women are both called by God, but they serve in different - but equal - ways. Sexism would only apply if the Church claimed women couldnt serve at all. For example, why doesnt the secular press and Schuller get angry that men cannot be nuns? The reason is they just want to attack and smear the Church, they dont really care about the fundamental principle they are discussing.
Heres hoping Schuller comes to his sense or is shown the door - both are equally good resolutions.
Anyway, on a brighter note, the 7pm Ash Wednesday service I went to last night was mobbed - including many young people, I was really surprised. (It wasnt my own parish, rather a parish in my home town, which was easier to get to, after work. I even noticed a guy I was at school with).
The priest remarked that he was delighted with the attendance and that the two masses during the day had been equally busy. He said it was easily the best Ash Wednesday turn out since he had been at the Parish. So, a wee glimmer of hope / good news, in the face of this nonsense from Austria.
A call by reform-minded Catholics in the German-speaking world for the church to soften its stances on homosexuality, divorce and celibacy among priests and to end its ban on women in the clergy is drawing loud criticism from conservatives. They argue the group is threatening to create a schism within the Catholic Church.
…
The group wants the priesthood to be opened up to women and to allow priests to marry. It says that communion should be more accessible, including to members of other churches and to those who have divorced. They want qualified laity to be able to give sermons and believe that churches should have a stronger local presence, rather than relying on sermons from traveling “celebrity” priests.
In other words, these people want to be Protestants in a predominantly Protestant society.
That’s the end result of the post-Vatican II reforms**: a repeat of the first Reformation: a glorious return to an imagined, better, ancient, golden age. **
The first Protestants thought they were Catholic, too, for the first couple of generations, I read.
*With its often more progressive stances on some controversial issues, the arm of the Catholic Church in the German-speaking world has long posed problems for Rome. Now a modern day schism is threatening the area’s priestly establishment. The brewing split exposes a rift in the German speaking world between more liberal reform minded and conservative Catholics regarding the future of the church. The stakes are high, with the number of men applying for the priesthood in decline as the church loses appeal among younger generations.
The liberal Pastors’ Initiative wants to reverse that trend, which has forced parishes to close, by making priesthood more accessible. Last June it put out a “Call for Disobedience,” calling for a rewrite of the church’s long standing views against homosexuality, divorce and celibacy.*
Ummmm, the problem isn’t that you aren’t liberal enough. The priesthood is in decline and the Church is losing appeal BECAUSE you are too liberal already. Maybe you should do something different?
I can’t speak to the rest of Germany, but in the small Bavarian towns where I spent my seven years living there the Catholic Churches were full on Sunday.
The Irish Government’s anti-Catholic stance is not typical of many of the Irish people, there was an outry when the (athiest) Taniste closed the Irish Embassy to the Vatican, and we are still lobbying them to re-open it! ;)
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