Is Marijuana a Mortal Sin?

Apologetics Moral Theology
#1

Maybe it would be more properly said: Does marijuana (recreational use) constitute “grave matter”? As we know that for a sin to be mortal it must be: grave matter, done with full knowledge, and willful.

Deliberate drunkenness (with alcohol) is a mortal sin according to St. Thomas Aquinas, because it affects reasoning.

newadvent.org/summa/3150.htm

I believe even in small doses marijuana use is “deliberate drunkenness”; and since marijuana use is always deliberate and the affects produced are very similar to drunkenness with alcohol, marijuana use is always a grave matter because of the affects on reasoning.

Marijuana affects the reasoning to such a great extent that the DSM IV classifies being stoned as “Marijuana Psychosis.” Under this DSM description for marijuana use (even if only for several hours) the affects are very similar to schizophrenia. Marijuana distorts the five senses of sight, smell, sound, taste, and touch. It also distorts reasoning in a profound way (even if it is only for two to three hours); it changes the perception of reality. Also people who are stoned are often very paranoid, therefore they have lost a sense of reality. Furthermore under the influence of marijuana it is harder to resist sins of the flesh, due to the affects of loss of reasoning.

Objection #1, One could say,
“Marijuana use doesn’t cause overdoses, cancer, black lung, or emphysema- no one dies from marijuana use.”

Reply to Objection #1:
The reason why deliberate drunkenness is a mortal sin (according to Aquinas) is not because it affects the health, but because it affects reasoning.

Notwithstanding, marijuana use does affect the cardiovascular system; it causes heart problems.

Objection # 2, One could say:
"Marijuana use in small doses, like alcohol use in small doses, is not always drunkenness. Alcohol use only becomes a mortal sin when one looses his/her reasoning abilities of right and wrong.

Reply to Objection # 2:
On the contrary, marijuana use even in small doses drastically affects the use of reasoning. Even in small doses a person is not able to clearly perceive, receive, reflect, and act upon the real (at certain times). This loss of reality leads to a distorted sense of pride.

Short term memory is affected and a person becomes lethargic. The reception of grace which God gives may not always be acted upon properly because reasoning is so distorted. A person doesn’t have to loose completely his/her sense of right and wrong to have this loss of reality and reasoning.

Pot heads can handle marijuana a little more effectively (due to frequent use) however it does change their perception of reality.

Objection # 3, One could say:
“A person can reason better under marijuana use (compared to alcoholic drunkenness), rarely does one see a person get stoned beat up his wife and drive down the street and kill entire family.”

Reply to Objection # 3:
Maybe this is true in this respect, however marijuana use distorts the perception of reality (reasoning). With marijuana a person is not able to clearly perceive, receive, reflect, and act upon the real. This loss of reality (truth) causes pride to be increased.

Furthermore, short term memory is affected. The reception of grace may not always be acted upon properly because reasoning is so distorted.

Objection #4, One could say,
"The affects of being stoned is so slight that a sober person cannot even tell in a conversation, with a person who is stoned, that they are under the influence of marijuana.

Reply to Objection #4:
Reasoning out logical arguments that have never been reasoned before is very difficult to do effectively under the influence of marijuana. Also learning a new task under the influence of marijuana is very difficult. At certain times under the influence of marijuana, fulfilling even the smallest of tasks seems very difficult. With a small amount of alcohol reasoning is not so drastically affected.

Short term memory under the influence of marijuana is very poor. A person cannot even watch a movie, read a book, or have a conversation and remember the events nearly as well as when sober. Even with small doses of marijuana, it seems impossible for reasoning to be effectively done. Furthermore marijuana use leads to lethargy, spiritual sloth.

Also more attention is given to the fleshly nature, and this attention is distorted because it affects the five senses and the mind.

One cannot use the excuse that alcohol drunkenness is not a mortal sin (See link above).

Objection # 5, One could say,
“Marijuana doesn’t cause hang-overs like alcohol and therefore doesn’t affect the behavior the next morning like alcohol.”

Reply to Objection #5:
This I think is one of the reasons why marijuana is a greater evil. Alcohol lends itself naturally to hangovers to discourage alcohol abuse; thus one naturally does not want to be drunk. Since, marijuana use does not lead to hangovers the next day it would lead to greater frequent abuse compared to alcohol.

Objection # 6, One could say,
“It was the Puritans who thought alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine were sinful. Catholics don’t think such substances are evil because matter is not evil, if these substances are done in moderation they are not sinful. Therefore, marijuana should be thought of in similar ways, if done in moderation it is not sinful.”

Reply to Objection #6:
I have already made it clear that Catholics do think deliberate drunkenness is a mortal sin according to St. Thomas Aquinas. Marijuana cannot be thought of like cigarettes or alcohol because it always affects the use of reasoning, even in small amounts.

#2

Spiritual Sloth, that’s the description I’ve been trying to think of. Whether or not pot is sinful, it’s an impediment to our relationship with God because it puts a roadblock in the way and can make us spiritually lazy. I used to smoke pot very regularly, but I realized at a certain point that it’s just too easy to light up a joint or smoke a bowl and be happy, but only superficially happy. It’s the seeking happiness in God’s creature (the pot) rather than in God himself that retards our spiritual progress.

#3

Well done ,I wish I had your brain and a good logical mind!! The only comment that I can add is: Objectively, if a person had all those reasons that you put before them and then smoked marijuana, perhaps you may be right.In a Civil law proceeding you would have an open and shut case,but God not only looks at the sin ,but also our inner dispositions at that time.Here lies the delemma–we are not God (or St Padre Pio for that matter) and hence cannot read minds!
I know that we have the Teaching Church,what does it teach on the subject of marijuana??Well nothing specific regarding Marijuana ,it mearly states the principle that the use of illicit drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life and their use is a grave offence and it states it is a grave offence against the moral law(especially for drug pushers).-- 2291 catholic catechism–Again,it looks like you have scored a conviction!!! Looks like the offender will go "Straight to JAIL"as some of the board games say!! So if a person dies in this state,hell is the place reserved for these people!!
But why not plead mercy for them??? I wonder if there is a place for a merciful and lenient sentence for marijuana uses and drug abusers in the general moral order???What would Jesus do if we put before Him these sinners at this very moment (and he will be The Judge of The Living and The Dead on the last day).Again I don’t know,but I do know how He acted with sinners when He was on earth.“Does anyone condemn you”–no one Lord!!"that is after the fact that Jesus wrote their sins one by one on the sand.“Let anyone who has not sinned cast the first stone!!!”–woman caught in adultery- “go sin no more”-BUSTED!!
One might conclude from this that Jesus does away with sin!! Don’t be fooled by the meek and humble Jesus from the sermon on the mountain–He warns us at least 30 times about HELL . ---------------- .So we are not let off the hook as regards taking maijuana and mortal sin!! ; I have gone a full circle.Sin is sin and taking illicit drugs is a serious moral evil, which is Church talk for Mortal or Deadly Sin.But do marijuana smokers commit a mortal sin?I would like to plead on behalf of these offenders as"The judgements that you give,will be the judgements that you will receive"I have a conflict of interest in this case and I will have to withdraw!!!
So I will say that perhaps most of the people are SUBJECTIVELY not guilty of mortal sin!.Well, mortal sin requires Serious Matter, Full Knowledge and Full Consent ,as it were with eyes wide open!!(An informed conscience) I would plead that there would be one hundred and one reasons why in most cases, it would be a venial sin (in that it does not cut us off from God)–but just because it is a lesser evil subjectively, does not mean it is okay–we fall little by little along the slippering road that leads us away from God.
I could plead that a lot did it under peer group pressure,drunk at the time,others they thought there was nothing wrong with it,no different to alcohol use,addictive personallity,obsessive /compulsive clouded reasoning,an immature mind, etc.No full knowledge or consent----no mortal sin.I would even say that a priest hearing a persons’ confession who mentioned marijuana smoking as a sin, would struggle with this moral judgement.I know of one person who confessed this sin, being told it was not a mortal sin!Maybe he was right,I hope so.I would be interested if someone ask some priest on what would be their judgement–especially those who flew through Thomistic Studies!!! (though a moral theology expert will do!!)
Have I given any light on the subject?Hardly think so, but it might draw an expert in moral law into the arena–I personally think using marijuana it is a stupid thing to do–is stupidity a sin???but I won’t start a new thread on that one!
St.Thomas Aquinas pray for us.St.Padre Pio from our hidden faults deliver us,enlighten us with Gods’ grace.

#4

I say Amen to both karoleck and PadraigPearce. Spread this writing to all pot-heads, put it out there; I don’t care if you steal the writing. True, we will leave the final judgment on the matter up to God. But I think it is important to objectively consider if marijuana is a “grave matter.”

In Christo per Mariam,
Michael.

#5

If you want a moral theology expert on the topic, let’s read the Catechism on the topic.

“The use of illegal drug inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strict therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense… They constitute a direct cooperation in evil, since they encourage people to practices contrary to the moral law.” Catholic Catechism # 2291.

#6

Not trying to be the forum pot advocate, but marijuana in small doses does not impair ones ability to comprehend reality… I don’t smoke now only because i don’t… IDK
has anyone hear smoked marijuana in small doses?

#7

Dear Phone for a Gram,

Are you telling me that marijuana in small doses doesn’t affect your ability to reason?

Let’s read DSM IV on Cannabis Intoxication (the DSM is the psychiatric bible every medical professional, psychologist and psychiatrist uses to see if a person has mental problems). Does this sound like it effects one’s reasoning?

“The essential feature of Cannabis Intoxication is the presence of clinically significant maladaptive behavioral or psychological changes that develop during, or shortly after, cannabis use (Criteria A and B). Intoxication typically begins with a “high” feeling followed by symptoms that include euphoria with inappropriate laughter and grandiosity, sedation, lethargy, impairment in short-term memory, difficulty carrying out complex mental processes, impaired judgment, distorted sensory perceptions, impaired motor performance, and the sensation that time is passing slowly. Occasionally, anxiety (which can be severe), dysphoria, or social withdrawal occurs.” DSM IV 292.89

In other words that is medical literature for being stoned. The above in the DSM description applies for smoking a quarter of one joint or taking one strong hit off the bong. You get the result described above with such a small amount; I know because I have smoked pot before.:thumbsup:

God doesn’t want us made in the “image of God” to loose our reasoning to such an extent. We have to “clearly perceive, receive, reflect, and act upon the real” (referenced book by G.C. Dilsaver; Imago Dei Psychotheraphy- A Catholic Conceptualization, Sapienta Press, 2009).

Michael.

#8

One last clarification and then I think I have written enough on the topic.

Most marijuana smokers will admit that marijuana (unlike alcohol) has a threshold limit that must be passed, before smoking much more will do little difference in effect. What I am saying is smoking a quarter of a joint will not do that much more effect (except make you more tired) than smoking 4 joints. This is not like alcohol were drinking a quarter of beer is a big difference in effect (affecting reasoning) than drinking 4 beers.

Drink one glass of wine and you can do almost anything except drive an Indie 500 Race-car, smoke a little off a marijuana joint and you can’t even cook your frozen pizza correctly. LOL! I don’t think this is a subjective statement.

I think all those medical studies scattered all over the internet that say that marijuana is better for your physical health than getting drunk really does confuse a lot of people. For clarification, the reason why deliberate drunkenness is a grave matter (according to Aquinas) is because it affects one’s reasoning, not because it affects one’s health. Marijuana is not like alcohol or tobacco, it always affects one’s reasoning (even in small amounts).

#9

opposingviews.com/articles/opinion-ama-ends-72-year-policy-says-marijuana-has-medical-benefits-r-1257871699

AMA Ends 72-Year Policy, Says Marijuana has Medical Benefits

What is your opinion on medical users?

#10

I was medicated earlier and because of that medication i was able to attend mass and even make a home made pizza, made my own dough from scratch…

Statements like this :
“smoke a little off a marijuana joint and you can’t even cook your frozen pizza correctly. LOL! I don’t think this is a subjective statement.”

are insulting to Catholics who use medicinally. Take for example Irv Rosenfeld…

youtube.com/watch?v=B1NggzEkltM

#11

Dear Catholic 102886,
I watched this MSNBC News Story on this very topic. The televsion program showed marijuana clinics in California, it seems like a bunch of teenagers lying around getting stoned all day. Even the Rolling Stones article I read on Medical MJ clinics say the same thing, I almost quoted their statement. “It seems like 99% of people who have the MJ Medical card abuse it, the clinics are full of teenagers lying around getting stoned all day.”

The link you gave says…

The CSAPH report concluded that, “short term controlled trials indicate that smoked cannabis reduces neuropathic pain, improves appetite and caloric intake especially in patients with reduced muscle mass, and may relieve spasticity and pain in patients with multiple sclerosis.”

First of all I would like to know what you medically use you use it for.

For example if you are taking chemo and you have lost your appetite (like if you are going to die from starvation) then I would suggest taking the pill form, Marinol, because it avoids the loss of reasoning so commonly associated with smoking the MJ flower in it’s pure form. I only say this since I am not aware of any other drug other than THC that increases appetite as effectively. There are some steroid testosterones that can help with building muscle back and some increase appetite. Did you loose your appetite?

For neuropathic pain or multiple sclerosis, a google search shows a ton of other drugs for this; the only draw back (possibly for you) is they don’t get you stoned.

If you got some social anxiety, general anxiety disorder, or some foot ache I would suggest other drugs that don’t get you stoned.

You may be Catholic, but Irvin Rosenfeld is a Jew according to this website that google gave me ( www.ornorml.org/articles/pdf/2006-norml.php) it says “a good old Jew boy who likes his pork.” I am not trying to being to funny, I am going to have to do more research on NORML and the main members religious background to see how many Catholics are involved.

#12

Dear Catholic 102886,

I did a little background info. This is what you wrote in another post…

  • Re: Meet and Greet #47
    Hey everyone my names Chris. I found this wonderful forum while looking for the act of contrition… Im 23 and had not been to confession since 8th grade but last night something hit me and well it was a night of no sleep and lots of reflecting which led me to the confessional at 930am this morning, couldnt be happier and glad I did it after soo long, the preist was soo nice and helpful… I now Plan to attend reconcilliation every other week now!! Peace of Christ be with you all. I hope to learn alot here from such a great forum.
    Chris *

Chris (aka Catholic 102886), your 23 y.o. and a Medical Marijuana patient; this just proves what I wrote above about the article in Rolling Stones. I counted the number of your posts, you wrote only 28 posts and 26 out of 28 are directly supporting medical marijuana on the CatholicAnwers Forum. Hey bud, your 23 and today you got stoned and went to Mass, then later cooked a pizza. What is the reason why you have a Medical Marijuana card at 23? Are you dying of cancer at 23?

Michael.

#13

Yes i posted that? whats wrong with posting that?

I just take offense because in hs i played baskeball everyday for 3hrs everyday, played on hs team and could have even played at a christian school in Tampa for college. Unforutunatly i begain to loose weight rapidly as i alredy stated and have had an undiagnosed abdominal condition I started at UF hospital then transeferred to the mayo clinic… Cannabis gives me an appetiite and relieves the spasms (very painful) whcih enables me to get the nutrition i need to barley make it thru a day. My weight has stabilized tho since using and because of this i can aattend church more reguraly etc etc… i did not post about my medical use in that post because it was in the meet and greet section not the is cannabis a mortal sin.

after 8th grade i went to a public school and got sidetracked from the catholic church tho i did attend mass more often than not i did not understand alot about our church but i do now and know that what im doing is not a sin. I did not choose to have this condition, i wouldnt wish it on any 1 it really sucks) but now im on the right path… I have an appointment at the mayo clinic next thursday so lets hope they can fix this and I wont need to use any medicine :slight_smile: thats my main goal. I was just stating that while being medicated i can do everything i could do before just fine… such as read, make food, watch movies etc etc…
I have posted so many times on this subject because it relates to my situation in sooo many ways. I am literally in tears when someone tells me i am in mortal sin because i use this plant for medication reccomended from a doctor… I also see soo much false information about something that has helped soo many ill people… Again I pray they fix whatever is wrong with me so i will not have to use any medicine… I do not support rec use but i do not believe people should be thrown in jail for it…

Sometimes i pray that they will find cancer for the simple reason they would know whats wrong with me again i have been going threw this for far too long and suffering thru it, at this point i would be happpy with a cancer diagnosis, Im strong willed and know i can beat any disease, all i want is a diagnosis and a treatment plan, for the time being tho i have to deal with what im delt and that is pain nasuea excrutiatig spasms etc etc soo yeah if you were in my shoes you might see things a little different. :shrug:

1 Like
#14

Pm me if you want my medical records or if any one is a doctor here please i would be happy to send them to you to help try to figure out what is wrong. Ive had colonscopies, endoscopies, pill cam study, small bowel follow thru, ct’s mri’s, blood tests of all kinds… At uf the said i had gastroparesis but when i went to the mayo they retested me twice and found no such condition? If there are any docs here does that make sense? I have brought it up to my docs at mayo and they said it is because For the test at uf i was lying down while at the mayo they test for gastroparesis while standing up over a longer period of time… Again if there are any doctors please pm me. Thanks all and God bless

#15

www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marinol.html
Dear michael 7777 and other great contibutors,I add the above link–it is a side issue to the debate ,but an approved pharmaceutical drug called Marinol(has THC) is available for the sick people who might benifit from it–under doctors’orders.Not a moral issue at all but a medical one.It is not an illicit drug(though a lot of doctors seem to use other better alternative prescribed medicine without THC , from what I have researched).The reason I bring this up is that the lobby for “medically” smoked marijuana is really a red herring for promoting a drug culture!!I have been fighting this lobby on a different thread-should marijuana be legal.Don’t let them keep you from the main thread!!What I do believe very strongly is that the most effective defence against the drug culture; are those who experienced it’s harmfull effects and that of their peers and survived through the mercy of God–so keep up your witness (other contributors) to your love of Christ and the alternative Christian way of life/culture.
If you ever get the chance, Michael 7777 how about taking this arguement to it’s logical conclusion(within this thread).
The Question is–Is the Mortal Sin of using marijuana because it is an Illicit drug(as the Catechism states) or because it effects reason???
The reason I ask this is because of Degrees–I do not
mean a University Degree!! It is God who dictates to mankind through The Ten Commandaments and through The Teaching Church what is a Mortal Sin.My arguement is this–if taking an illicit drug is an objective Mortal sin against God–well smoking marijuana is an illicit drug, therefore it is objectively a Mortal Sin-end of story,no if or buts.I already covered the subjective side, though I certainly do not follow subjectivism…In the book “Teachings of Christ”(Lawler,Wuerl & Lawler)"A man cannot love himself or others if he does not have temperance or self-control.—By a false love of self catering to immediate cravings,intemperance destroys the better self one should love–ones such as gluttony,drunkeness,drug abuse,lust.Such sins can destroy ones’freedom.Sometimes the circumstances that lead human fraility toward such sins reduce personal resonsibility for them very much."end of quote.Christ is rather kind,don’t do think?
On the other hand ,if the mortal sin of smoking marijuana is because of the loss of reason ,I could see a case being made against this.Take Alcohol for example-in my country we have a zero drug test reading for anyone driving a truck/bus-airoplane/air traffic controllers and many others–any reading of alcohol-well out the door you go(except the pilots in the air!!)The demand for zero tolerance is to make sure the people have full cognitive mental alertness–full reason.If you drive a car you cannot have more than .05 here–so alcohol does have a degee of influencing reason-in different levels.A person could have a few glasses of wine/beers-nips of spirits and not be entitled to drive a car and may be not capable either,without committing a mortal sin of drunkedness,not even a venial one, providing the use of the moral reasoning point was not crossed and the virtue of temperance was observed.It was Christ who changed water into wine!Cannot remember reading anything about marijuana in the Bible, though probably Judas used a hemp rope to hang himself!The thieves were tied by rope also; but Jesus was nailed to the Cross for our sins(one being drug abuse)
So a person on marijuana could say “I do nothing wrong"I get a little high,laughted a heck of a lot and no harm done,I still had control of my reasoning"The person could say”- I still have got it together,I smoked it in a temperate amount and do not get stoned out of my brain"They have a point,there is a degree of being stoned-depending on frequent use/tolerance level or the strength of it -female plant-super grass/hash-hash oil etc.all will change the degree of reason.(you might even blow your mind!) Any long turn user can verify that there are different levels of being high.
But is it a Mortal sin ,if they argue in this way,most certainly, would be my answer! why? well it is a moral evil to take illicit drugs objectively and since they now know what the Catholic Church teaches–stop doing it and if they cannot–seek help from a priest or a drug rehabilition cente,–go show yourselves to a priest in confession and sin no more!!.Christ is Merciful and full of compassion,being fully human “we have a High Priest who is like us in all things(except sin) so he understands our weaknesses”!!!
Do not worry about "hogging"the debate, as one saintly person wrote’Give the best of your thoughts,do not keep them to yourself–let God squander them as He pleases"Sister Mary of the Holy Spirit.a Poor Clare of Jerusalem.
St.Michael the ArchAngel,defend us in the battle,be our safeguard against the malice and snares of the devil and protect us from the evil spirits who roam throughout the world seeking to the ruin of souls–keep them away from this thead.Amen.

#16

Catholic 102886, My sympathies go out to you if you are truly suffering from a medical condition. The Catechism states that if it is used under “strict therapeutic grounds” than it is okay. Only you know if you abuse the system to get stoned, it sounds like you may not be. You have an “undiagnosed” stomach condition.

Karoleck you wrote,
The Question is–Is the Mortal Sin of using marijuana because it is an Illicit drug(as the Catechism states) or because it effects reason???

I would say both, it is an illict drug and the fact that it affects reason. In the US and many other countries it is illegal for most people and hence objectively “grave matter.” Let’s say that I flew to Amsterdam and there the drug is legal. I would still think it would be a “grave matter” so I would not smoke marijuana because it affects the use of reason. I say that for most people (~ 99%) cannabis would strongly affect their reasoning even at small doses. If they say it doesn’t then they are probably lying to themselves.

newadvent.org/cathen/12673b.htm
newadvent.org/summa/3150.htm

Michael.

#17

Maybe it would be more properly said: Does marijuana (recreational use) constitute “grave matter”? As we know that for a sin to be mortal it must be: grave matter, done with full knowledge, and willful.

Deliberate drunkenness (with alcohol) is a mortal sin according to St. Thomas Aquinas, because it affects reasoning.

newadvent.org/summa/3150.htm

I believe even in small doses marijuana use is “deliberate drunkenness”; and since marijuana use is always deliberate and the affects produced are very similar to drunkenness with alcohol, marijuana use is always a grave matter because of the affects on reasoning.

I see you’re a new member from another Catholic forum and posted the exact same argument there in the same night. Very interesting.

• A You believe? Or do you know? Your opinion doesn’t automatically become fact. Caffeine affects reasoning, nicotine affects reasoning, alcohol even in smaller amounts affects reasoning. How do you know it affects the brain the similar to alcohol? Yes in some ways it does, but I wouldn’t label it similar.

Marijuana affects the reasoning to such a great extent that the DSM IV classifies being stoned as “Marijuana Psychosis.” Under this DSM description for marijuana use (even if only for several hours) the affects are very similar to schizophrenia. Marijuana distorts the five senses of sight, smell, sound, taste, and touch. It also distorts reasoning in a profound way (even if it is only for two to three hours); it changes the perception of reality. Also people who are stoned are often very paranoid, therefore they have lost a sense of reality. Furthermore under the influence of marijuana it is harder to resist sins of the flesh, due to the affects of loss of reasoning.

• B Not true. I was with a friend who was drunk as can be and he wanted to have sex with all the girls there. He wanted to drink more and more, couldn’t stand straight, and was degrading towards women. I was also there with a few folks that smoked marijuana. The people who smoked marijuana acted so mellow, tired, and friendly. They weren’t out to engage in immorality, they just wanted to chill and talk. Compared to alcohol it doesn’t come close. There is big difference in getting buzzed, let alone drunk on alcohol than several tokes of marijuana. Alcohol often promotes violent behavior and marijuana often promotes more peaceful behaviors

Objection #1, One could say,
“Marijuana use doesn’t cause overdoses, cancer, black lung, or emphysema- no one dies from marijuana use.”

Reply to Objection #1:
The reason why deliberate drunkenness is a mortal sin (according to Aquinas) is not because it affects the health, but because it affects reasoning.

Notwithstanding, marijuana use does affect the cardiovascular system; it causes heart problems.

• Actually destroying our health is a sin. If you think “loss of reasoning” is the only problem here you must really have some seriously messed up logic. That’s why we exercise the virtue of temperance. The Baltimore Catechism says the mortal sin of drunkenness is defined by which point the person completely loses his abilities to reason. Thus this be also resulting in a deliberate disregard for the sanctity of human life(alcohol poisoning and the like) You need to understand the importance of the word, completely. Because certainly by logical reasoning at little to moderate amounts of alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine does diminish our ability to reason to some extent, but not completely. This all goes back to the virtue of temperance. You might ask when a person completely loses their ability to reason. The answer I’m afraid is not straight up simple. It all depends on mood, body weight, sometimes gender, metabolism, and other factors unique to the individual. Thus determining whether or not a person has had so much to drink/smoke that is considered grave matter is up to them to discern with the help of a priest. Furthermore even if they found that is was drunkenness, said drinker/smoker must with the help of a priest discern if they were fully aware that they, before the act, knew that they were going to enter a state of drunkenness, and that they fully consented by their own will to allow themselves to enter that state of drunkenness.

Objection # 2, One could say:
"Marijuana use in small doses, like alcohol use in small doses, is not always drunkenness. Alcohol use only becomes a mortal sin when one looses his/her reasoning abilities of right and wrong.

Reply to Objection # 2:
On the contrary, marijuana use even in small doses drastically affects the use of reasoning. Even in small doses a person is not able to clearly perceive, receive, reflect, and act upon the real (at certain times). This loss of reality leads to a distorted sense of pride.

Short term memory is affected and a person becomes lethargic. The reception of grace which God gives may not always be acted upon properly because reasoning is so distorted. A person doesn’t have to loose completely his/her sense of right and wrong to have this loss of reality and reasoning.

Pot heads can handle marijuana a little more effectively (due to frequent use) however it does change their perception of reality.

• Marijuana in small doses does not drastically affect reasoning. As a matter of fact no amount of marijuana does. Certain cannabaniods inside the marijuana, however, such as THC can affect reasoning at some point, but not necessarily at small amounts. You have no standardized proof of that. I’d also like to caution you on using the term pot head as it’s a little vague, frequent marijuana user works better.

1 Like
#18

Objection # 3, One could say:
“A person can reason better under marijuana use (compared to alcoholic drunkenness), rarely does one see a person get stoned beat up his wife and drive down the street and kill entire family.”

Reply to Objection # 3:
Maybe this is true in this respect, however marijuana use distorts the perception of reality (reasoning). With marijuana a person is not able to clearly perceive, receive, reflect, and act upon the real. This loss of reality (truth) causes pride to be increased.

Furthermore, short term memory is affected. The reception of grace may not always be acted upon properly because reasoning is so distorted.

• Once again from the affects I and many others have seen up close will beg to differ. Folks that are drunk tended to act very prideful and folks that were toked on marijuana tended to be more humble. Now I’m not extrapolating that everyone, but if you pay attention it fits many people. I see many drunkards enjoy conflict; while marijuana users tend to avoid conflict. In addition, reply to objection #3 is a red herring or should I say on the verge of. You have admitted that Objection #3 is true, therefore there is no reason to argue a contrast. I notice it seems you are trying test marijuana affects in situations where it should not be taken. If a persons going to smoke, they better be in safe responsible setting just as if one is going to have a few drinks. They shouldn’t be in setting where they may or will be needed to test their perceptions of things(driving, in care of children, at work, and the like). Also they shouldn’t drink or smoke to the point where they completely lose their ability to reason.

Objection #4, One could say,
"The affects of being stoned is so slight that a sober person cannot even tell in a conversation, with a person who is stoned, that they are under the influence of marijuana.

Reply to Objection #4:
Reasoning out logical arguments that have never been reasoned before is very difficult to do effectively under the influence of marijuana. Also learning a new task under the influence of marijuana is very difficult. At certain times under the influence of marijuana, fulfilling even the smallest of tasks seems very difficult. With a small amount of alcohol reasoning is not so drastically affected.

Short term memory under the influence of marijuana is very poor. A person cannot even watch a movie, read a book, or have a conversation and remember the events nearly as well as when sober. Even with small doses of marijuana, it seems impossible for reasoning to be effectively done. Furthermore marijuana use leads to lethargy, spiritual sloth.

Also more attention is given to the fleshly nature, and this attention is distorted because it affects the five senses and the mind.

One cannot use the excuse that alcohol drunkenness is not a mortal sin (See link above).

• Objection #4 is a bit vague, I have no clue what this person would be meaning by stoned(no standardized amount given in his blood given) However, it is logical from the evidence I have seen that one could hide their outward affects of marijuana depending on the physical nature of that person and the amount of THC, CBD, and other cannabaniods present in their system. Anyway, once again, a person who going to smoke shouldn’t being doing so to test their abilities on certain things. Do you go out and drink moderately and then try to remember the events that happened that night? I don’t see any responsible alcohol drinker or marijuana user put himself in a situation where he is going to read book, watch a movie, or learn a new task and then have to recall that information later. Unless he is in a study. Thus this whole objection is moot. Also not all alcohol drunkenness is a mortal sin. Remember, we don’t bake a cake with only flour, we need our other two ingredients as well( full knowledge, and full consent of will). You can say however, that all alcohol drunkenness is grave matter.

#19

Objection # 5, One could say,
“Marijuana doesn’t cause hang-overs like alcohol and therefore doesn’t affect the behavior the next morning like alcohol.”

Reply to Objection #5:
This I think is one of the reasons why marijuana is a greater evil. Alcohol lends itself naturally to hangovers to discourage alcohol abuse; thus one naturally does not want to be drunk. Since, marijuana use does not lead to hangovers the next day it would lead to greater frequent abuse compared to alcohol.

• Have you ever heard the phrase, "give the devil a ride and he’ll want to drive.”? Hangovers don’t discourage alcohol abuse that well otherwise it wouldn’t be such problem in today’s society. Over 20000 Americans die each year from alcohol deaths, not including auto wrecks, and liver diseases. Remember these are people died from too much alcohol, this isn’t just people who get drunk annually. That number would be extremely high. So despite knowing the facts of what happens and can happen people get drunk they decide to do it anyway. I know there came a point with me where after a few drinks I didn’t want to stop drinking, which led to more drinking. So the whole fear of getting a hangover goes straight out the window after you cross that point(loss of reasoning). If a person wants to drink a lot, they’ll eventually get over that fear of a hangover. A wise person needs to make a decision before they drink or set another person in charge to tell them when to stop. I’m a little curious to why you inserted the word, “would” in your last sentence. Statistics often show that around half of Americans have tried marijuana yet I don’t see half our nation guilty of marijuana abuse. Furthermore if you are trying to imply that if marijuana would be legal it would lead to more abuse than alcohol, may I remind you that the Netherlands for example, in which marijuana is tolerated a lot more than the U.S, has a lower percentage of users than the U.S.

Objection # 6, One could say,
“It was the Puritans who thought alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine were sinful. Catholics don’t think such substances are evil because matter is not evil, if these substances are done in moderation they are not sinful. Therefore, marijuana should be thought of in similar ways, if done in moderation it is not sinful.”

Reply to Objection #6:
I have already made it clear that Catholics do think deliberate drunkenness is a mortal sin according to St. Thomas Aquinas. Marijuana cannot be thought of like cigarettes or alcohol because it always affects the use of reasoning, even in small amounts.

• Once again, cigs, caffeine, and alcohol all affect the brains abilities to do task. That is why we use them. When you go to a bar to drink alcohol, your intention is to feel some affect from it even if it’s not to the point of drunkenness your reasoning is impaired, but not necessarily completely. When you light up a cigarette your intention is to feel some boost, buzz, light headed feeling off it. When you drink coffee, your intention is to feel energized, focused, and ready to go. Reasoning skills are affecting. So yes it can be stuck in that category. The only difference is that marijuana isn’t legal, which is it’s own topic
• Also, Um I’m not sure if you haven’t noticed my friend, but not all joints are the same- in other words unlike alcohol they aren’t standardized. THC concentrations often differ between 9-22% certain sub strains of Cannabis Sativa as well as CBD which is like anti-THC. Therefore it is extremely ignorant to assume than just any ¼ joint makes you stoned. Furthermore, how big is the joint are we talking about. 3.5” and a 2mm diameter, or what? Also how packed is the joint, how much does it weight? You see how vague you are being. It’s like me saying, “drink a quarter glass of alcohol and tell me how you feel” without knowing the size, diameter, alcohol content, and height of glass. I hope you don’t ignore this, because it’s important to the discussion.
• Also there’s a difference in a quarter of a joint and 4 joints. Why else do marijuana users look and work so hard to find/grow potent marijuana? If I drink 3 parts 80proof jack with 1 part 7up as opposed to 1 part jack and 3 parts 7up, there will probably be difference in the affect it has on me. St. Fiacre please pray for us that our world may understand the beauty of God’s beautiful plants and products we make of them. That we can truly to learn the virtue of temperance and learn not to demonize it either. Peace of Christ be with you Michael.

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#20

Stringbeanduck you just saved me alot of time and energy and for that i thank you!!
As alredy stated marinol has only the thc cananonoid, which science has shown to get the full medicinal benefit for most medicinal useres they need the other 50 plus cannabinoids found in the plant cannabis. Some conditions may very but it’s safe to say they work in harmony together to make a wonderful and safe medication…
Godbless You all