We know John MacArthur thinks the Catholic Church is satanic. But does this not sound like an elusion to Purgatory?
*If I see myself for who I really am, and I really want to be something completely other than what I am, then death would be actually fairly attractive to me. I will never be the man I should be in this world. I won’t be the man I should be till I’m dead. Right? None of us will. *(MP3 from 3/20/08) I wonder if he has any idea how close he is to understanding purgatory.
I don’t think most Protestants understand the verse in Revelation that says “nothing impure will enter Heaven”. Its easy to see Purgatory in the things that others say, through the mind of Catholic doctrine, but he is probably of the mindset that he will enter heaven the day he dies and he will automatically become perfect/holy therein.
I don’t think that he is referring to Purgatory. If we do have salvation, then at death we will be made completely holy. That does not require pain, punishment for temporal penalties or the passing of time. God can simply take us and say “You are holy” and we would be instantly.
Yes, this is how I best underrstand the Protestant view of purgatory also. They believe in a purge but an instantaneous one.
Of course, Purgatory may exist outside of the way we comprehend time, so it may appear to us to be instantaneous. The Catechism doesn’t speculate either way.
If you think thats what he was alluding to you don’t know him well… But I encourage you to continue checking out his material.
There is NO protestant view of purgatory~!
Christ paid our sins in full, the penalty of sin is death when we die any remaining sin is gone…Cleansed by the blood of the Lamb the moment the blood was poured out.
Being made completely holy after death is purgatory. Most protestants I know do not agree as closely to Catholic purgatory as you describe here. Whether you want to say “temporal punishment” is purged or something else is a semantic difficulty as far as I can tell. The only difference I see between what you have written here or what MacArthur said is an avoidance of the phrase “purgatory.”
Also, while there are theologians who speculate on the amount of “pain” involved, referencing the fire mentioned in Corinthians, that is not addressed in the Catechism 1030-1032. However, it is also not stated as fact that there will be “no pain” as you did.
Even so, what you described is in line with Catechism 1030.
As for the “instantaneous” of this being “made holy,” the Church has no definition on that either. Here’s what Pope Benedict said about it (then Cardinal Ratzinger):*The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive.*So I think you might be in line right behind MacArthur. 
No, I don’t think he was consciously alluding to it. Re-read the last sentence of my OP. p.s. and don’t you worry, I listen to him almost every day. 
He sounds Catholic very, very often, and he doesn’t even realize it. And as long as he has it in his mind that Catholicism is from satan, he probably won’t be able to admit any truth in it. :rolleyes:
I think he is referring to the idea that most fundamentalist believe that one is made instantaneously holy at death. I guess no one ever asked where in the Bible does it say that.
I think John Mc Arthur hatred of Catholicism is due to the fact he hold a secret atraction to some things. Like Ted Haggard bashing of homosexuals:D .
But frankly most of the time he sounds like a check your brain at the door fundie.
I have mentioned this before so forgive me for revisiting an earlier post on another thread. I once upon a time attended his “church” and I have no real memories of that…to MacArthur’s discredit. However, I did attend a daughters graduation from his accredited college in the Los Angeles area and he spoke at the commencement. I do remember this MacArthur “gem”…“We don’t need a Magisterium…yada…yada” The yadas are mine but what Mac meant was…you don’t need a Catholic teaching authority…all you need is me…John MacArthur to help you understand what you should believe. This is as plain as the…well, nose on my face.
So you believe at ones death they are 100% conformed to the will of God that they have perfected themselves to the point of being able to face God? We do not believe so, we believe that the power of The Christ and the work of the Paschal Mystery will prepare us for that meeting and purify us so that we will be able to enter the wedding feast, cleansed and garmented for His pleasure.
I listen to his radio sermons quite frequently. I would venture to say the vast majority of them are teaching his audience about false teachers. Your observation is spot on from what I’ve heard of him. :o
I suspect that what MacArthur was referring to was 1 John 3:2 which says, “Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.”
That’s precisely why they are wrong. :shrug:
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He clearly rejects OSAS … and thinks most Evangelical sects have abandoned true belief and are teaching error. John Mac is an enigma. A great preacher, strong on the Trinity … but doesn’t believe Water baptism is necessary for salvation.
If he would debate a Catholic like Staples … he would learn of his many errant beliefs.
Are you sure about this? I’ve not heard him say anything contrary to OSAS off-hand. In this article on his website he sounds adamant that OSAS is true. I believe I’ve heard him discuss sin and how it’s bad but it won’t affect his “position” in Christ. That’s a keyword for him. :o
I know Macarthurs teaching and you are wrong on this, it’s probably why you showed not a drop of proof.
Some are, i’d like to read the context from which you derived this from though.
It isn’t. Think theif on the cross.
I think what would transpire could never be a faceoff type debate because Staples would try to bring in other things as the “Word of God” where Mac would stick with scripture.