"Nations"

[TimeEntrance]

Mar004 said:

god blesses poeple not nations, the only exception has been the kingdom is Isreal.

Technically I think one can call ancient Israel a nation.

I think I read somewhere from a Catholic source that ancient Israel was a nation - not a state or -nation-state either - nor an ethnicity (Hebrew) and that God blessed that nation made up of different ethnicities that carried His Torah to the world.

I’m almost positive I read from a Catholic source sometime ago… that the Catholic Church not only views itself as the fulfillment of ancient Judaism but as a nation blessed by God, chosen by God, to carry the message and sacraments of God to the world.

My former Africology professor viewed what we often term “ethnicities” as more appropriately called “nations.” Therefore, he considered African-Americans as a nation. Puerto Ricans as a nation. Et cetera. He also stated that the United States is a country of many nations.

So, how should the word “nation” be properly used and was ancient Israel a nation, and is the Catholic Church globally one nation?

[DavidFilmer]

The concept of a “nation” is subjectively political. The United States recognizes Israel as a “nation” but Iran does not (the region known as “Israel” was carved out of the (Muslim) Byzantine Empire in the 20th Century, after the fall of the Byzantine Empire following WW1).

The “nation” known as Israel was established from a United Nations mandate in 1948. The “nation” has existed for less than seventy years.

The sovereign nation known as Vatican City (led by the Pope as an elected absolute monarch) was established in 1929.

Both Israel and the Vatican are members of the United Nations. Both field diplomatic representatives in countries that recognize them.

[TimeEntrance]

@DavidFilmer

The concept of a “nation” is subjectively political. The United States recognizes Israel as a “nation” but Iran does not (the region known as “Israel” was carved out of the (Muslim) Byzantine Empire in the 20th Century, after the fall of the Byzantine Empire following WW1).

The “nation” known as Israel was established from a United Nations mandate in 1948. The “nation” has existed for less than seventy years.

The sovereign nation known as Vatican City (led by the Pope as an elected absolute monarch) was established in 1929.

Both Israel and the Vatican are members of the United Nations. Both field diplomatic representatives in countries that recognize them.

I’m talking about ancient Israel and the Catholic Church (militant, not suffering or triumphant, or what some prefer to call the people of God) and not Vatican City.

Hmm… :hmmm: Maybe I should have used the word Israelites instead?

I’m not really referring to the two earthly kingdoms the ancient Hebrews had. What were they? Israel and Judaea? I don’t remember.

I guess what I was thinking of was ancient Israel as a nation living within many different kingdoms run by pagans usually. In contemporary times the Catholic Church as a “nation” or God’s chosen people if you will… living all the various modern countries of earth.

I do know the “nation-state” is a relatively new thing in human history and requires clearly defined - albeit invisible usually - boarders. Modern day Israel is a nation-state and as you pointed out was created after the decline of the Ottoman Empire.

But as I said… my Africology professor (and I assume the social science of Africology as a whole) used “nations” to refer to what many of us would call “ethnicities.” In that case, the Catholic Church being multi-ethnic can not be properly termed a “nation.” Ancient Israelites probably couldn’t either as it’s my understanding not all of them were Hebrews.