Do nocturnal emissions/wet dreams cause us to fall into mortal sin?
What happens in your sleep and out of your control is not sinful. It is what happens while you are awake that must be paid close attention to.
I can’t answer the question of mortal sin directly, but as someone recovering from addiction to lust, such dreams are often a sign to me that I’m letting lust pervade my mind, body, and spirit during my waking hours.
You have a point here. From reading various threads on this forum, it seems as though the people who believe masturbation is a mortal sin, defer the possibility of nocturnal emissions as being sinful. I always thought of it like this: If you believe semen that is not intended to procreate life is sinful, everyone sins (not everyone, but those who are able to have wet dreams)…because the fact remains, ejaculation is a normal and healthy behavior for males. If you want detail, I have posted the medical reasoning on the thread Re: Masturbation Help.
Find one thread among the vast archive of posts saying that ‘wet dreams’ in and of themselves is sinful. I am interested to see what you find.
Did you read my post? Let me word it a little more clearly. People who say that masturbation is a mortal sin are quick to claim that nocturnal emissions are not sinful.
To the OP: Please see these threads as you will probably find the information they contain very helpful.
I apologize, I did not read your post correctly. Considering the three conditions necessary for something to be considered a mortal sin, ‘wet dreams’ do not meet any of the criterion. That would be the cause of the quickness of which you refer.
Cygnus has a valid point, however. Even though we may not be fully aware at the time of a nocturnal emission, lust during the time we are awake, may be the cause. Some people have never even had a nocturnal emission…maybe thay haven’t for the sole fact that they don’t have any lustful feelings.
I don’t think that’s a physical possibility.
In any case, I’ve always wondered on this myself. I’ve always sort of seen it as an outlet for sexual tensions. They certainly can’t be mortal sins, as they are obviously not committed with our full consciousness. But nonetheless, there are those times when you seem to have control over your dreams… yet still I would argue that in a dream-state, your judgment would be sufficiently altered enough that the conditions for mortal sin simply couldn’t be met.
A nocturnal emission is a normal physiologic event for some males and **NOT **a mortal sin as does not meet the criteria for a mortal sin, which is (1) grave matter (2) full knowledge of the sin and gravity of the act (3) commission with deliberate and complete consent. One cannot sin mortally by accident or while asleep.
Masturbation on the other hand is without question a mortal sin. Some may call it normal but in reality, one who calls it normal one really is trying to imply that it is a common activity, which no doubt it is. It is not normal, but common. One may or may not participate in such activity.
One who masturbates sins mortally b/c it fulfills all three of the criteria above and is a disordered use of the sexual faculty, which is the unity and procreation within the married state. In masturbation, neither is achieved, even within the married state. Because of the fantasy or pornography involved, it includes the “lust of the eyes” mentioned my Christ in Mt. 5:28.
Actually, masturbation is normal. For it not to be considered normal, it would have to be considered abnormal, in which case it most certainly is not.
A mortal sin is a sin which ruptures the bond between God and ourselves. So, the gravity, etc. in reality is more of a guildeline, and the dividing line may differ from sinner to sinner. I personally do not believe masturbation to be a mortal sin, nor feel guilt or further from God, as a result.
Hey Daniel, just curious…what would you say about a random male who masturbates when he is sleep walking?
I acknowledge that this question isn’t directed at me, but my understanding is that sleep-walking isn’t an act of will, noe can acts done during sleep-walking involve the human free will…so it wouldn’t be a sin.
BOTTOM LINE: Sin requires an act of will. Masturbation (while not sleep-walking) entials an act of will, nocturnal emissions never do.
There is a variable at play here…unless extensively studied and patterned, we will never know if nocturnal emissions are a result of an act of will. I am not trying to prove you wrong, however, if you are deeming masturbation a mortal sin, you better have solid scientific evidence which explains that nocturnal emissions are not an act of will.
Let’s overview dreams, for a moment. Dreams are forms of communication stemming from the subconscious mind to the conscious mind of the dreamer. Every single dream is communication from the inner self to the outer self and is always a message concerning the dreamer and the dreamer’s state of consciousness. The subconscious mind bestows dreams as a vehicle for feedback on the dreamer’s activities, thoughts, and attitudes during the previous day. So, unless you provide solid evidence that nocturnal emissions can result without lustful feelings, you have no right to deem nocturnal emissions as any less of a sin than masturbation.
I don’t believe that one can definitively state the true nature and meaning of dreams. Many theories abound. Certainly they are a product of REM sleep, but beyond that, there’s not consensus as to the purpose of dreaming nor how much control one could have over one’s dreams. The definitive argument presented also discounts the possibility of diabolic or even God-inspired influence. Sin is in the will. I don’t see the evidence that indicates that dreams are a reflection of the will…and more importantly, neither does the Church.
A sleep walking masturbator? You are joking right?
It is easier to imagine a sleep walking Texas hold 'em champion.
You don’t actually consider sleeping persons as having full consent of the will and full intention to act, apart from some sort of scientific study do you? How would such a study be designed as a double blind random study?
Masturbation is common among some animals and the emotionally immature person who seek sexual pleasure as its own end. It is not a total gift of self, and can be rightly described as a waste. It does not unify but divides. It certainly is not procreative. Such is not the normal state of the human person, by design, but a defective state that is common (but not normal) in human persons. Maturation and integrity in this area begins when one considers that the fantasy and lust involved are illusions and the act of having sex with one’s self and imagination is disordered. Many consider this addictive behavior. So I suppose that emotional immaturity is common, but not normal. Common is a better and more accurate adjective when speaking of masturbation. A common dysfunction affects the majority of the community, hence the appearance of normalcy by population, as normalcy and commonality are often confused.
On another point, do the inner self and outer self you identify with such confidence have names? Can you show me where the inner and outer selves are located on CTs or MRIs? Or in a human or animal dissection? Can you say for instance “The inner self is medial to the optic nerve?” Or is the inner/outer self conundrum a figment of your vivid imagination. Can you support your inner – outer - dream hypothesis with the same scientific rigor that you demand for nocturnal emissions (which are BTW, normal and not sinful)?
R. Shepherd and associates, you never cease to entertain.
I can provide evidence as to why there is consensus as to the purpose of dreaming and how much control one could have over one’s dreams. lucidity.com/slbbs/index.html
Ever heard of lucid dreaming? Lucid dreaming is the conscious perception of one’s state while dreaming, resulting in a much clearer experience and sometimes enabling direct control over the content of the dream, a realistic world that is to some degree in the control of the dreamer.
Additionally, the whole self and the whole mind can progress and grow as consciousness expands. The conscious and subconscious minds are two halves of a whole. The conscious and subconscious minds are designed to work together. The subconscious mind identifies only with forward motion. Therefore, the subconscious mind presents messages in dreams that will aid the conscious mind to move forward through learning, growth, and expansion of consciousness. Thus, the two minds can be in alignment and harmonized.
Interesting article, yet it still presents one scientist’s theory refuting another’s. It also appears from the article that some people are lucid dreamers and others are not. There’s also the whole issue of recall of dreams. I’m not doubting the credibility of the science here, but I believe it’s a little premature to say with certainty that the OP is culpable for the sin in question. It almost appears that lucid dreaming is a technique to acquire versus how one who is untrained may normally dream. Having said that, if one had mastered lucid dreaming and willfully took one’s dream in an impure direction, then there might be some grounds to consider it sinful.
I am just curious, how does masterbation divide?
Not being argumentative, just wanted to hear your explanation.
Thanks