Strange question on sexual intimacy in the context of marital act

Catholic Living Family Life
#1

Morally speaking and per se (objectively), wife can she refuse manual stimulations and oral stimulations on her entire body (in the respect of natural law) made by her husband as a foreplay to marital act in the context of conjugal act ?

Morally speaking and per se (objectively), husband can he refuse manual stimulations and oral stimulations on his entire body made by his wife as a foreplay to marital act in the context of conjugal act?

What are your answers, your comments, your reactions? I know my intervention can be for some people as very strange, but a catholic can not be tabouist thinker: Toubouism is not very natural and catholic, that is my point of view.

In the detail I reserve my answers, but at the first glance I think that these types of stimulations are totally natural and not horrible, I mean indecent and not immodest.

Complementary Information:

According to the Code of Canon Law ------ canon 1096 § 1" For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation."-----.

“some sexual cooperation” how to define this in the detail?

What is your point of view?

#2

My point of view is that I am getting a little weary of your inquiries.

:shrug:

#3

Yeah, no offense but what is your obsession with sexual questions? This is getting strange.

#4

By this time I am doing a research in order to improve my understanding on this topic. May be more later, I could begin a Doctorate in Law with a focus on Natural Law, Divine Law, Canon Law, realistic philosophy of law, catholic theology.

I am preparing a bibliography and I want to share my questions with catholic lay persons before perhaps to write a book or to draw up my academical thesis.

By my higher education I am a jurist. I like studying natural law.

I want to show the true teaching of catholic church with academical point of view without Tabouism…etc.

#5

I have many issues because some catholic lay persons or some religious are too liberal or too strict. If one day I write a book or a thesis in french , my mother tongue, I want to explain how catholicism defends the true doctrine : realistic, natural, good for man and woman, without taboo.

For me, sorry for this word, but many catholic people seem to see the sexual sin where it is not, and do not see sin where it is.

The catholic teaching on the marital act is beautiful and not prudish. Sexual pleasure, orgasm of wife, orgasm of husband , sexual foreplay, sexual after play, some sexual games are elements of sexual intercourses.

According to me, catholic church has a good and holy doctrine. But, she is difficult to understand because the evil (satan) hates the human body that by nature is a sexual body.

The principle in the couple: “Love and make what you want” in link which natural law wanted by God.

#6

What does “see the sexual sin where it is not, and do not see sin where it is” supposed to mean? What does “Love and make what you want” mean, for that matter, in practical terms? I would venture that a sexual morality without taboo is* utterly* unrealistic. Even the pagans have limits on what they allow people to do to and with each other. The question, then, is what belongs in the realm of taboo, what does not, and how the whole question of moral taboos is handled. This isn’t just about sex. Sex is just one place that morality plays out. You may as well ask if there should be taboos on husbands speaking the truth to their wives. It seems an easy question; but it is not!

Generally speaking, when people come here and say, “I want to do so and so, but my spouse doesn’t” or “My spouse wants to do so and so, but I don’t”, the advice is to show some patience, muster all the generosity you can, communicate and work it out! The only things held in taboo are the things that actually are forbidden.

I think Evil, as C.S. Lewis points out in his Screwtape Letters, mainly sees the human body as a playing field on which a strategic battle between itself and God is played out…that is, a battle of wills between spirits who oppose God’s will and God. As such, the human body is “useful” to evil where it can be made use of, but where God makes use of it, not so much. As God made the human body and bodily pleasures and delights in the same, C.S. Lewis’ demons complained that the cards were “unfairly” stacked in God’s favor!

#7

According to my french culture, a taboo is “only” in a strict (stricto sensu) a prohibition of speaking, debating and giving information on the topics because the spiritual tradition, the classical philosophy, the traditional culture and the traditional education says no possible to talk about. Why??? For me, it is tabooism.

By “see the sexual sin where it is not, and do not see sin where it is”, I mean that there is a too great disinformation of catholic people on the ethic of sexuality within catholic marriage: false ideas, prejudices, taboos…: for sum up all is bad or all is good (it is a simple summary, but people are so touched by illiteracy in their religion). Spouse says no to the other because he thinks this behaviors is wrong according to his point of view of on catholic faith.

“Love and make what you want” (Augustine of Hippo) is a quotation given by many priests during marriage preparation like guide for the conjugal act.

Theology, realistic philosophy , objective philosophy, medical sciences, the link between faith and reason have to be the guide for husband and wife. In the couple, human intelligence is so precious in order to avoid stupid choices, bad intellectual approaches…etc.

#8

Read the whole epistle, not just the sound bite:
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iv.x.html

…Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee: Love, and do what thou wilt: whether thou hold thy peace, through love hold thy peace; whether thou cry out, through love cry out; whether thou correct, through love correct; whether thou spare, through love do thou spare: let the root of love be within, of this root can nothing spring but what is good…

And then later in the same exhortation:

If any of you perchance wish to keep charity, brethren, above all things do not imagine it to be an abject and sluggish thing; nor that charity is to be preserved by a sort of gentleness, nay not gentleness, but tameness and listlessness.23842384 Ep. cliii. 17, c. litt.; Petil. ii. 67: Serm. clxxi. 5. Not so is it preserved. Do not imagine that thou then lovest thy servant when thou dost not beat him, or that thou then lovest thy son when thou givest him not discipline, or that thou then lovest thy neighbor when thou dost not rebuke him: this is not charity, but mere feebleness. Let charity be fervent to correct, to amend: but if there be good manners, let them delight thee; if bad, let them be amended, let them be corrected. Love not in the man his error, but the man: for the man God made, the error the man himself made. Love that which God made, love not that which the man himself made. When thou lovest that, thou takest away this: when thou esteemest that, thou amendest this. But even if thou be severe23852385 Sævis. at any time, let it be because of love, for correction…

#9

Good luck on your bibliography and all, but I don’t like the idea of being used as a research project without my consent.

:shrug:

#10

Sorry if I could be clumsy. My intention for this moment is only to debate in order to understand. I do not use nothing and if one day I write my texts and that I need threads of this forum, I will ask each user.

#11

So you DO use something.

#12

English is not the posters primarily language, let’s cut him a break on this.

#13

fpt’s posts are creeping me out a little bit.

#14

When people are working through a particular area of their life or even just trying to learn about a particular piece of teaching, they find all the resources they can. This forum is arguably the best resource as far as discussion with other Catholics go. I don’t see why it’s in any way difficult to ignore a thread. :shrug:

#15

Let us just say that any data gathered here would be anecdotal, at best. The OP couldn’t use it for anything except as inspiration for what directions might be employed when going to get real data.

Consider the “he’s creeping me out” to be useful feedback, OP. It should tell you something that these are considered really odd questions to be asking at all.

#16

Maybe I’m mistaken, but the implications of starting this thread seems suspicious, appearing to intentionally to bring out the scrupulousness often present in groups of Catholics, especially on internet gatherings like this. I also question the acedemic integrity of this “research”. Justifying this as all part of some interesting study automatically diminishes the strength of the research, as of now the data you are collecting is not really scholarly… just sayin’

I’m confused by the questions as well. Is it implied that any act outside of just procreation (keep it generic and no-nonsense) considered sinful, even with married couples? If so, I have a problem with that.

#17

Um…check out how many threads this poster has started over the last week and a half. It’s more than just one thread. None of them are about personal situations or questions, they all resemble some sort of thesis project.

#18

Before all, my intention is not to hurt the sensibility of users of this forum.

  • it is a mistake, I wanted to write I do use nothing, and if one day I write my texts and that I need threads of this forum, I will ask each user.

My mother tongue is not English. Sorry, if my English writing is often clumsy and not so formal.

About my researches, I would like to say that this forum can be read by visitors and members. Thus, according to me, the threads are totally public, they are not private or semi private.

Therefore, when one user decides to participate actively(I mean writing something, by definition He knows its interventions could be use for something). The use can be done for instance by a journalist who wants to understand catholic mentality on a topic and more to identify the social thought, the social behavior…

Today, A Ph.D. is often very multidisciplinary (Law = Canon Law, Natural Law, Divine Law, Contracts law, sociology of Law, History of law, History of Institutions, Sciences of Interpretation of Law ; Philosophy= realistic philosophy, objective philosophy, epistemology, philosophy of law…; Catholic Theology = Links between Faith, reason, sciences, Natural Theology; Sociology of religions = sociology of mentalities, sociology of taboos; History; Medical Sciences; psychological sciences…

This catholic forum is very good for getting catholic information and for debating.

I am so sorry, if my questions concerning the moral of sexuality within catholic marriage are boring, too much strange, clumsy.*

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