What is the Messianic Secret? Mark 4:10-12

Mark 4:10-12
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

The Purpose of the Parables

*10 When he was alone, those who were around him along with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; 12 in order that

‘they may indeed look, but not perceive,
and may indeed listen, but not understand;
so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.’”*


What is the Messianic Secret as described here? I have read Haydock, wikipedia, and I think I Father Raymond Brown’s explanation though I cannot recall for sure.

Anybody have some (name removed by moderator)ut as to how to understand this passage in the Gospel of Mark which is called the messianic secret by some?

Maybe the answer is Luke 17:21

“Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.”

And the other part of the secret is who it belongs to

Those like a child, the peacemakers, the poor in heart, those who suffer and others.

Interesting, thanks. I’ll look into that. :slight_smile:

I would raise yet another question here. Who are the ones “outside”? You would assume that the ones that don’t understand his parables are the ones outside. But didn’t they just tell him to explain the parables to him?

Yes, this passage is certainly open to various interpretations (including raising further questions). I think some of the more liberal theologians like Crossan had a crack at it on the PBS series “From Jesus to Christ” which was interesting but I’m no fan of Crossan et al. and the whole Jesus Seminar crew.

Folks, you’re over-thinking this. Jesus was alone with the Apostles and disciples, and everybody else was outside that group of students.

Secondly, the word isn’t “secret.” It’s “mysterion,” mystery. A mysterion is a Sacrament.

Thirdly, the parable right before this is the parable of the seeds and the soils.

Jesus had called the Apostles and disciples specifically. Anyone who was not yet an Apostle or disciple at that point was not yet a participant in Jesus’ mysterion; they were just onlookers. You have to follow Christ to know Him. He gave Himself to those who followed Him, and so He was able to teach them more fully. They didn’t always understand right then – in fact, they mostly didn’t – but He was able to give them His teachings for later, for when they did understand.

He is the mysterion of the Kingdom of God, just as we proclaim Him and His Sacrament of His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity to be “the mystery of faith,” at every Latin Rite Mass.

Colossians 2:1For I want you to know how great a struggle I am having for you and for those in Laodicea* and all who have not seen me face to face, 2that their hearts may be encouraged as they are brought together in love, to have all the richness of fully assured understanding, for the knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge

usccb.org/bible/colossians/2

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14).

Peace

Great catch, hazcompat! Yup, that’s “mysteriou,” mystery, also. :slight_smile:

Yes. :slight_smile:

hazcompat, thanks for reminding me of links to the Bible of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops online bible (Books of the Bible | USCCB) because I forgot they also provide footnotes for cross-reference, specifically for Mark 4:12 we get:

Isaiah 6:9: “And he replied: Go and say to this people: Listen carefully, but do not understand! Look intently, but do not perceive!”

John 12:40: “He blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they might not see with their eyes and understand with their heart and be converted, and I would heal them.”

Acts 28:26: “‘Go to this people and say: You shall indeed hear but not understand. You shall indeed look but never see.”

Romans 11:8: "as it is written: ‘God gave them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day.’ "


Personally I think one needs to look at the context of where the Evangelist Mark places this parable of the messianic secret in his gospel, in the fourth chapter. In the first three chapters of Mark we see Jesus healing the sick, no parables given. We see Jesus, however, continually being confronted by the Scribes and the Pharisees in the first three chapters of Mark. It is thereafter in Chapter 4 where Jesus begins to teach in parables, but this parable called the messianic secret, I believe, is different from the other parables (which Jesus uses to teach his disciples and followers) in that Jesus specifically singles out the scribes and pharisees as those who “may look and see but not perceive…”.

Jesus is speaking of them in this parable - the scribes and pharisees, in my opinion. I think the context and order of the Gospel of Mark shows this, though this parable appears elsewhere in Luke I believe.

Upon rereading the beginning of Mark, it is also interesting to note that Jesus speaks of Himself in the third person as the Son of Man, but the unclean spirits address Him as the Son of God and He orders this not be known.

This is going to be a long series of (re)posts, but please bear with me here.

Just to summarize a number of the themes found in Mark (the canonical one):

1.) The fast-paced colloquial gospel. Mark is a very short, rapid and terse gospel. It begins simply with a very brief introduction (“The beginning of the euangelion of Jesus Christ, son of God”) and most likely ends in an ambiguous cliffhanger at 16:8 (“They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.”) In between the narrative pace is very fast: Mark has a rather quick montage of a series of episodes from Jesus’ life, but slows down a bit in order to tell the story of Jesus’ final week. His constant use of the words euthys (“immediately”) and kai (“and”) to connect pericopes and sentences together all contribute to this feel.

2.) Jesus as “son of God.” The very first thing that Mark tells us is that Jesus is “son of God,” although he does not elaborate further on the status of His sonship. After a brief introduction involving John the Baptizer, Jesus then appears abruptly into the scene as an adult - Mark eschews any discussion of Jesus’ birth or boyhood and by means of this succinctly presents Jesus as a sort of mysterious, divine figure distinct from your average 1st century Galilean peasant. Whereas a modern biographer would trace patterns of interaction between the subject and his environment in highlight the subject’s distinctive features, Mark simply proclaims Jesus’ uniqueness but not gives us the reason why. This segues into:

3.) Jesus the enigma. Mark is so keen to emphasize Jesus being a unique person that in the very first healing in the gospel (the demoniac at Capharnaum; 1:21-28), we are at once told that:

[INDENT]And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching. And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes. …] And they were all amazed, so that they questioned among themselves, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He commands even the unclean spirits, and they obey him.” And at once his fame spread everywhere throughout all the surrounding region of Galilee.

As the gospel progresses, however, it becomes increasingly difficult to know as to just what sort of person Jesus wants to present to the world. He performs miracles but warns people to not tell everyone about it (more on this theme later). He draws crowds to Himself because of His words and actions, but then withdraws away from the people attracted to Him. In fact, He even disassociates Himself from His blood relations:

That evening at sundown they brought to him all who were sick or oppressed by demons. And the whole city was gathered together at the door. And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons. And he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him. And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed. And Simon and those who were with him searched for him, and they found him and said to him, “Everyone is looking for you.” And he said to them, “Let us go on to the next towns, that I may preach there also, for that is why I came out.”

Then he went home, and the crowd gathered again, so that they could not even eat. And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.” …] And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.” And he answered them, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”

To say that Mark’s Jesus is lonely is somewhat of an overstatement, since the author very rarely comment on Jesus’ thoughts, but He is certainly alone. This loneliness will eventually reach a climax at His death, where none of His acquaintances provide any moral support.

And Jesus said to them, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. But let the Scriptures be fulfilled.” And they all left him and fled. And a young man followed him, with nothing but a linen cloth about his body. And they seized him, but he left the linen cloth and ran away naked.

And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” …] There were also women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome.[/INDENT]

(Continued)

4.) Fear and astonishment. The theme of “wonder” in the form of either fear, terror, astonishment, or awe is another running theme of the gospel. Of the thirty-two references to wonder in Mark, eight involve miracles or exorcisms (2:12; 4:41; 5:15, 33, 42; 6:50, 51; 7:37), eight occur in teaching or passion predictions (1:22, 27; 6:2; 9:32; 10:24, 26; 11:18; 12:17), three appear in the empty tomb narrative (16:5, 6, 8), five relate to the fear of Jewish or gentile leaders (6:20; 11:32; 12:12; 15:5, 44), and eight are difficult to categorize (3:21; 5:20; 6:6; 9:6, 15; 10:32; 12:11; 14:33).

The thing about the act of wondering in Greco-Roman literature is that there it appears mainly in reference to signs, portents, dreams or divine intervention in general. In early Jewish Jewish writings meanwhile wonder is a common reaction to God or divine actions, and appears frequently in eschatological, messianic, and/or propagandistic contexts. In early Christian texts, it may be a response to experiences that move one beyond that which is normal or natural into the realm of the supernatural. It can have either a positive or negative connotation, and be followed by either faith or deception. This segues into:

5.) Apocalyptic imagery. Mark’s gospel does not belong to the apocalyptic genre per se, but it does contain its “little apocalypse” in chapter 13. As with most apocalypses, it begins with a narrative and then moves on to prediction, in this case Jesus’ prediction of the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and cosmic catastrophe, which is then followed by divine rescue by the “Son of Man” coming on the clouds of heaven. Mark’s use of apocalyptic imagery, however, is not restricted to this chapter: it pervades the entire narrative that we could consider it an apocalyptic drama in the form of a realistic narrative. Mark’s writing style may also be related with this theme: the fast breathless pace leading up to the end of this world.

Mark’s Jesus is thoroughly apocalyptic. At the beginning of the gospel, the mysterious Jesus - already an adult - suddenly appears out of nowhere without fanfare to be baptized by John (who is himself an apocalyptic figure) and after the descent of the Spirit and a sojourn in the wilderness (1:9-12), He conquers the cosmic forces (the ‘unclean spirits’) that have oppressed humans (1:21-28) to demonstrate that “the kingdom of God” is breaking into the world through His deeds and words (1:14-15).

The thing about Mark is that He emphasizes Jesus’ actions more than His words. Although everyone calls Him a teacher and His stance towards His followers is that of a teacher, Mark does not report too many of Jesus’ sayings: he limits himself to a handful of parables (4:1-32), some aphorisms (6:4; 7:15), prophetic warnings (13:5-23) and instructions to the disciples on the cost of their commitment to God’s rule (8:34-38).

Jesus’ “new teaching” is a matter of power. He heals (1:29-34), drives out demons (5:1-20), stills a storm-driven sea (4:35-40), feeds a multitude (6:34-44). and walks on the water (6:45-52). All of this causes both followers and opponents to ask, “Who is this?”

This is where we go back to number 4. In the first half of the gospel, wonders follows the acts of God in the breaking-in of God’s rule in and through Jesus, “son of God.” Many who experience those divine interventions react with wonder, but not all proceed to repentance and faith (cf. 1:14). In the second half, the saving intervention of God takes on the form of the “son of Man” giving His life as a ransom for many, and this too elicits reactions of amazement.

This segues into:

6.) Insiders vs. outsiders. Mark maintains the insider/outsider irony inherent in the genre: his readers have the ‘necessary knowledge’ from the start (“the gospel of Jesus Christ, son of God”), but this truth eludes most of the human characters in the narrative, who should most have had such ‘insider’ knowledge, namely, the disciples. This is where we go to:

(Continued)

4.) Fear and astonishment. The theme of “wonder” in the form of either fear, terror, astonishment, or awe is another running theme of the gospel. Of the thirty-two references to wonder in Mark, eight involve miracles or exorcisms (2:12; 4:41; 5:15, 33, 42; 6:50, 51; 7:37), eight occur in teaching or passion predictions (1:22, 27; 6:2; 9:32; 10:24, 26; 11:18; 12:17), three appear in the empty tomb narrative (16:5, 6, 8), five relate to the fear of Jewish or gentile leaders (6:20; 11:32; 12:12; 15:5, 44), and eight are difficult to categorize (3:21; 5:20; 6:6; 9:6, 15; 10:32; 12:11; 14:33).

The thing about the act of wondering in Greco-Roman literature is that there it appears mainly in reference to signs, portents, dreams or divine intervention in general. In early Jewish Jewish writings meanwhile wonder is a common reaction to God or divine actions, and appears frequently in eschatological, messianic, and/or propagandistic contexts. In early Christian texts, it may be a response to experiences that move one beyond that which is normal or natural into the realm of the supernatural. It can have either a positive or negative connotation, and be followed by either faith or deception. This segues into:

5.) Apocalyptic imagery. Mark’s gospel does not belong to the apocalyptic genre per se, but it does contain its “little apocalypse” in chapter 13. As with most apocalypses, it begins with a narrative and then moves on to prediction, in this case Jesus’ prediction of the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and cosmic catastrophe, which is then followed by divine rescue by the “Son of Man” coming on the clouds of heaven. Mark’s use of apocalyptic imagery, however, is not restricted to this chapter: it pervades the entire narrative that we could consider it an apocalyptic drama in the form of a realistic narrative. Mark’s writing style may also be related with this theme: the fast breathless pace leading up to the end of this world.

Mark’s Jesus is thoroughly apocalyptic. At the beginning of the gospel, the mysterious Jesus - already an adult - suddenly appears out of nowhere without fanfare to be baptized by John (who is himself an apocalyptic figure) and after the descent of the Spirit and a sojourn in the wilderness (1:9-12), He conquers the cosmic forces (the ‘unclean spirits’) that have oppressed humans (1:21-28) to demonstrate that “the kingdom of God” is breaking into the world through His deeds and words (1:14-15).

The thing about Mark is that He emphasizes Jesus’ actions more than His words. Although everyone calls Him a teacher and His stance towards His followers is that of a teacher, Mark does not report too many of Jesus’ sayings: he limits himself to a handful of parables (4:1-32), some aphorisms (6:4; 7:15), prophetic warnings (13:5-23) and instructions to the disciples on the cost of their commitment to God’s rule (8:34-38).

Jesus’ “new teaching” is a matter of power. He heals (1:29-34), drives out demons (5:1-20), stills a storm-driven sea (4:35-40), feeds a multitude (6:34-44). and walks on the water (6:45-52). All of this causes both followers and opponents to ask, “Who is this?”

This is where we go back to number 4. In the first half of the gospel, wonders follows the acts of God in the breaking-in of God’s rule in and through Jesus, “son of God.” Many who experience those divine interventions react with wonder, but not all proceed to repentance and faith (cf. 1:14). In the second half, the saving intervention of God takes on the form of the “son of Man” giving His life as a ransom for many, and this too elicits reactions of amazement.

(Continued)

This segues into:

6.) Insiders vs. outsiders. Mark maintains the insider/outsider irony inherent in the genre: his readers have the ‘necessary knowledge’ from the start (“the gospel of Jesus Christ, son of God”), but this truth eludes most of the human characters in the narrative, who should most have had such ‘insider’ knowledge, namely, the disciples. This is where we go to:

7.) The messianic secret. Again and again in the gospel, when Jesus performs something miraculous He rather oddly tells the witnesses to keep quiet about it. The very first time Jesus tries to silence someone is in Mark 1:25, when He rebukes the unclean spirit possessing a man in Capharnaum in response to its claim to know who Jesus is: “Be muzzled shut, and come out of him.”

A little later Mark tells us: “And many demons he drove out, and was not permitting the demons to speak because they knew him.” (1:34) Jesus does not silence them because they were saying false things about Him; on the contrary, He did so “because they knew him.” We often get this pattern in Mark where Jesus heals or exorcises someone, or when someone reveals His true identity, Jesus tells them all to shut up about what just happened, but very often the people can’t seem to restrain themselves from blabbering about it for some reason and so fame about Jesus and His abilities spreads anyway. This also applies for Peter’s confession and the Transfiguration:

[INDENT]And he asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You are the Christ.” And he strictly charged them to tell no one about him.

And as they were coming down the mountain, he charged them to tell no one what they had seen, until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. So they kept the matter to themselves, questioning what this rising from the dead might mean.

The first person to notice and identify this theme was a man called William Wrede, who also applied the title of “messianic secret” to this phenomenon. Now Wrede advanced the theory that Jesus did not really proclaim Himself as the Messiah during His lifetime nor was He identified as one by anyone. It was only after Jesus’ death that the disciples eventually came to believe that He was indeed the Christ. Now what happened, according to Wrede, was that the early Christians then invented the literary motif of having Jesus keep His true identity secret throughout His ministry when they retold the story of His life, in effect (anachronistically) transposing their understanding of who Jesus is back to an earlier time. Wrede thought that the clue to this lies in Jesus’ admonition to the disciples after the Transfiguration, where the disciples are told to keep everything a secret “except when the son of man should rise from the dead.”

The problem with Wrede’s theory, however, is that first of all, while he argued that the messianic elements in the Jesus story were later insertions by the early Christians some of the ‘Jesus tradition’ do look rather messianic in nature (the entry to Jerusalem, for instance - which evokes the prophecy from Zechariah). Secondly, while Jesus does command silence, the people proclaim the news anyway - hence the theory doesn’t really make sense of the messianic-secret motif and its function in Mark’s gospel. Thirdly, there is one instance (5:19-20) where Jesus actually commands a healed person to tell the news.

8.) Misunderstanding/blindness. As mentioned earlier in number 6, the greatest irony in Mark’s gospel is that almost know one knows who Jesus is. Mark partly privileges the audience by saying right at the very beginning that Jesus is “son of God,” although he leaves it at that with no clarification. Time and again, supernatural entities appear in the course of the story revealing His true identity (usually using that key phrase “son of God”), sometimes in the ostensive hearing of everyone, but most of the time, either Jesus orders them to shut up, or the people around Him are just too blind and deaf.

And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

And immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.” But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!”

And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons. And he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

And whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” And he strictly ordered them not to make him known.

And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”

And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my beloved Son; listen to him.” And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone with them but Jesus only.

The disciples, of all people, prove to be the most dimwitted and ‘blind’ within the narrative. To his credit, heactually starts off his portrayal of the disciples pretty well: for instance, when Jesus calls His disciples, they obediently follow, leaving behind everything to follow Him (1:16-20; 2:13-17; 3:13-18). However, aside from a handful of places where the disciples shine, everything goes downhill from there, as we will soon see.[/INDENT]

(Continued)

The gospel pays particular attention to the alienation that Jesus feels from His disciples. When Jesus articulates His first parable in the gospel (that of the sower), He concludes it with an exhortation: “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” In other words, “You’d better use your ears and listen well!” Mark does not relate the crowd’s reaction, but he does tell the disciples’, and they pointedly lack “ears to hear.” Jesus responds to their request for an explanation of the parable by pointing their privileged position of having “the mystery of the kingdom of God” plainly revealed to them, while to those outside everything is said in parables. In other words, Jesus does not explain Himself immediately, but provides a justification for His parables, and this justification divides insiders from outsiders. In the hyperbole of this explanation, everything sounds parabolic to outsiders in order that they will remain outside. Mark’s Jesus, according to His own admission, intentionally confounds His listeners to push them away: He slams and locks the door on their faces, so to speak.

The disciples would seem to play the role of insiders, in contrast to the scribes and other opponents, but this is not exactly right. Their position only allows them exposure to the “mystery,” but not necessarily understanding. This gift would prove to be a mixed blessing. In 4:13 Jesus asks them a pair of questions: “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?” The implied answer for the first question being “no,” and to the second, that they won’t. Hence, the insiders have no more luck than the outsiders in comprehending Jesus’ riddles. After more parables (mostly involving more seeds), Mark closes this section of the gospel with the words:

[INDENT]With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as they were able to hear it. He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything.

The parable of the sower epitomizes Jesus’ teaching to the disciples. He presents them something which confounds them, and when they ask for an explanation, they become more confused. Returning to Jesus’ question, we see that if the disciples do not understand one parable, then they necessarily cannot understand all or any of the parables.

Perhaps to drive home the point that the disciples are faithless dullards, Mark in the following pericope (the calming of the storm; 4:35-41) has the disciples tell Jesus rather bluntly: “Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?” and Jesus retorting back: “Have you still no faith?” When Jesus finally orders the storm to die down, the disciples could only remark: “Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?” thereby bringing us back to Mark’s emphasis on Jesus being a mysteriously unique figure, as well as further hammering the point of the disciples’ blindness.

Another scene proves this same point even further. Mark is one of the two gospels which includes two feeding stories. The first (6:30-44) has 5,000 men (plus uncounted numbers of women and children) being fed with only five loaves and two fish, while the second (8:1-10) involved 4,000 people, seven loaves and “a few” small fish. At first, the two stories seem to be so similar as to be repetitive (Luke and John do not include the latter feeding), but it serves the purpose of showing the readers, or rather the hearers of the gospel the disciples’ comprehension skills (or lack thereof). Three times in the first story, the place where the crowd gathers is described as deserted or desolate:

The apostles returned to Jesus and told him all that they had done and taught. And he said to them, “Come away by yourselves to a desolate place and rest a while.” For many were coming and going, and they had no leisure even to eat. And they went away in the boat to a desolate place by themselves. …] And when it grew late, his disciples came to him and said, “This is a desolate place, and the hour is now late. Send them away to go into the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat.”[/INDENT]

(Continued)

In the second story, Jesus subtly attempts to provide His disciples a cue for recalling the previous feeding:

[INDENT]In those days, when again a great crowd had gathered, and they had nothing to eat, he called his disciples to him and said to them, “I have compassion on the crowd, because they have been with me now three days and have nothing to eat. And if I send them away hungry to their homes, they will faint on the way. And some of them have come from far away.”

One would expect the disciples to say, “Why not feed them the same way you did that other crowd.” Instead, however, we get this gem of a question:

And his disciples answered him, “How can one feed these people with bread here in this desolate place?”

The disciples are either so thick, or have collective amnesia: I mean, they were right there in the previous feeding in the other “desolate place”!

Mark, however, does not let the disciples off the hook yet. After the feeding, Jesus has a dispute with “the Pharisees” concerning signs, after which:

And he left them, got into the boat again, and went to the other side. Now they had forgotten to bring bread, and they had only one loaf with them in the boat. And he cautioned them, saying, “Watch out; beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.” And they began discussing with one another the fact that they had no bread. And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why are you discussing the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened? Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? And do you not remember? When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?” They said to him, “Twelve.” “And the seven for the four thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?” And they said to him, “Seven.” And he said to them, “Do you not yet understand?”

Which brings us back to chapter 4:

And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that

they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.

The disciples, therefore, are acting like “those outside:” seeing but not seeing, hearing but not hearing. There is again the trademark Markan irony at play here: immediately after Jesus talks about signs, His disciples mistake a metaphorical statement for literal truth. After just having seen Jesus feed crowds, they worry that one loaf will not be enough for all of them. The disciples could get their numbers right, but their interpretive skills are zero. In fact, Mark closes the pericope following that of the miracle of multiplication of food (that of the walking on water; 6:45-51) with the words:

And he got into the boat with them, and the wind ceased. And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened.

It is not just the disciples who misunderstand. The theme continues right up to the end of the narrative:

And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” And some of the bystanders hearing it said, “Behold, he is calling Elijah.” And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.”[/INDENT]

I’ll stop here and post links instead:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=32
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=33
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=34
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=35
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=36
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=37
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10135193&postcount=38

Wow, Patrick. Thanks for the detailed answer(s) ! It helps.

Just out of curiosity, which Bible do you use, because you have the quote from the Gospel of Mark above where Jesus’ family claims, “He is out of his mind", which isn’t included in some versions but E.P. Sanders and others do quote this line in their studies of Jesus. I’m no expert on the various Bibles out there and the differences, but which have you used for your Biblical references?

On the messianic secret, do you agree with Father Raymond Brown who stated that Jesus’ saying the parables are given to those outside in order that they may not see, understand or be converted is an offensive text if one does not understand the biblical approach to divine foresight where what has in fact resulted is often presented as God’s purpose? Father Brown uses the example of Exodus when God tells Moses of the Divine Plan to make Pharaoh obstinate so that he will not listen to Moses - a hindsight description of the fact that Pharaoh resisted. Father Brown asserts that Mark is really just describing what he sees as the negative result of Jesus’ teaching among his own people. Again Brown implies this stuff is (or may have been) put in later to make it seem that what does indeed happen was already foretold before, which diminishes the provenance of Jesus’ sayings. I can’t say I agree with this, do you Patrick? (Although this may be a too-simple way of phrasing this question).

Since, you’ve dealt pretty comprehensively with Mark in the posts above, let me ask you: do you believe its author’s first language was Greek or Aramaic? I ask because the quality of Greek in Mark apparently is weaker than in the other Gospels, plus Mark seems to quote certain statements in Aramaic (i.e. Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?) and then gives the Greek translation.

And finally, how do you have your answers all ready to go like that? I type and fly off the cuff on any one CAF post but you seem to be working on some major study or have one ready. :slight_smile:

edit to my previous post: third paragraph, second last sentence on Father Brown should read: “I can’t say I agree with this in most instances in the New Testament”, which is what I meant to say but ran out of editing time for under 20 minutes. sheesh

Probably!

Its very easy to do and happens all the time :slight_smile:

We should rest in the Sacred Heart of Jesus+