3 wounded as off-duty US servicemen subdue gunman on Paris-bound train

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ringil said:
Jihad has different meanings. It is commonly seen by many Muslims as a 'personal struggle not a military affair.

Terrorism is the problem- not Islam.
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So one is saying ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are not problems? I firmly disagree.
 
Jihad has different meanings. It is commonly seen by many Muslims as a 'personal struggle not a military affair.
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Oh, that will comfort the victims of such attacks.
 
Path_Finder said:
So one is saying ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are not problems? I firmly disagree.
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Terorrism is the problem. Islam is not.

The CCC, Lumen Gentuim, and the recent Popes have made this clear.

Why do you persist in pressing an idea that is not of the Church?
 
ringil said:
Jihad has different meanings. It is commonly seen by many Muslims as a 'personal struggle not a military affair.

Terrorism is the problem- not Islam.
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isn’t the word jihad used by terrorists though along with their terrorism?
 
Path_Finder said:
But a requirement is Jihad in Islam, the culprit in this attack is a Jihadist; they take their very name from their Holy Book.

Jihad - (among Muslims) a war or struggle against unbelievers.
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Jihad is much more complex than that. Wars of agression are prohibited without exception. A war may only be waged in defense of Islam for the preservation of the faith. Jihad is fought internally through regular prayer, pilgrimage, good deeds, and regular charity. It can be waged externally by defending the faith and those who practice it from aggressors. Walking onto a train with the intent to murder innocent people is a perversion of the Quran and the concept of Jihad just as much as the LRA is a perversion of the Bible and Christianity.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Jihad is much more complex than that. Wars of agression are prohibited without exception. A war may only be waged in defense of Islam for the preservation of the faith. Jihad is fought internally through regular prayer, pilgrimage, good deeds, and regular charity. It can be waged externally by defending the faith and those who practice it from aggressors. Walking onto a train with the intent to murder innocent people is a perversion of the Quran and the concept of Jihad.
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what does it say about the infidels in the Quran?
 
With total respect, France has 7 million, 5 million Muslims, I’m sure 80%, 90% or even more are peaceful but simply put, you will still have those that do act and you also have those who support the violent action. It is supported because Jihadists do act out on what they see that the faith commands, hence, you also have Imams that are arrested. Choudary in the UK has been arrested and I think stories on such Imams are not rare.

It is simply impossible to totally disassociate the faith totally from these acts of violence. What we can say is a small minority of those believe in the radical interpretations.
 
Path_Finder said:
It is simply impossible to totally disassociate the faith totally from these acts of violence. What we can say is a small minority of those believe in the radical interpretations.
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Then the Catholic Church is evil because a percentage of persons have done evil in the name of the Faith?

Again, read the CCC, Lumen Gentium, and the recent Popes.

The Church has never stated that Islam itself, lends it’s followers to violence.
 
ringil said:
The problem is terrorism not Islam.

Your efforts to malign the faith of Islam are not in keeping with Church teaching.
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No, it’s Islam. The teachings of Islam are clear and acts of ISIS are much more in keeping with the teachings of Islam and the acts of the Prophet than anything you’ll get from Western apologists, even Church apologists. At times, I wonder why anybody would be more inclined to believe the ostensible Catholic Church teachings on Islam than they would be to believe the Grand Imam of Iran. If I wanted clarification on Catholic doctrine, I probably wouldn’t go to a mosque.
 
Countries like Yemen are the result of a religious war going on there, Iran is an Islamic Republic and probably does at times, sponsor terrorist attacks, we know all about ISIS, Al Qaeda. Yemen is close to undergoing a famine as of now along with 2 sets of beliefs, Shia and Sunni, the Saudis vs. Iran in a sort of proxy war.

Yes, we have had comparisons, one can say Country X has acted heavy handedly but I’m not sure if that is a direct act out of their faith.
 
7_Sorrows said:
what does it say about the infidels in the Quran?
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In war they are given the option to convert or perish. In conquest they may practice under certain conditions. In peacetime, they are to be left alone. In the Hebrew Bible, they’re all to be killed or enslaved.
 
I would rather focus on the heroism shown that day on the train in Frand and praising the men who took action and put their lives in danger to save the passengers on the train than to discuss Islam.
 
ucfengr said:
No, it’s Islam. The teachings of Islam are clear and acts of ISIS are much more in keeping with the teachings of Islam and the acts of the Prophet than anything you’ll get from Western apologists, even Church apologists. At times, I wonder why anybody would be more inclined to believe the ostensible Catholic Church teachings on Islam than they would be to believe the Grand Imam of Iran. If I wanted clarification on Catholic doctrine, I probably wouldn’t go to a mosque.
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Catholics are led by the Church. The CCC is the authentic teaching of the Church. Lumen Gentium places Islam with Judaism, along with Christianity as the three Abrahamic Faiths.

It is Church teaching that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity worship the one true God. Judaism and Islam have an imperfect understanding of God- but it is doctrine that they worship the same God.
 
ringil said:
Then the Catholic Church is evil because a percentage of persons have done evil in the name of the Faith?

Again, read the CCC, Lumen Gentium, and the recent Popes.

The Church has never stated that Islam itself, lends it’s followers to violence.
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And the Bible says “blessed are the Peacemakers”, that’s the Church’s role, not to speak badly of other faiths, not to tell us the truths of other faiths.

The references you cite furthermore, are somewhat qualified in regards to the big picture and I posted the link as to what our Holy Pope Benedict said. The Catholic Church is not endorsing Islam.
 
Path_Finder said:
Again, the preceding discussion is fine, let us hope people around the world will fight these kinds of terrorist attacks, no matter what faith does it, though, I don’t know when the last time I heard about Buddhist or Christian Terrorists, no, the IRA did not do their acts as an act of faith.
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What about Buddhist terrorism in Myanmar against Muslims? Just off the top of my head, so please verify if you wish.
 
Path_Finder said:
And the Bible says “blessed are the Peacemakers”, that’s the Church’s role, not to speak badly of other faiths, not to tell us the truths of other faiths.

The references you cite furthermore, are somewhat qualified in regards to the big picture and I posted the link as to what our Holy Pope Benedict said. The Catholic Church is not endorsing Islam.
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The Church states the truths of other faiths, such as paganism which, in the view of the Church, has no real value. The same is said of animism, witch-craft, etc. . . .

And I will find Benedict’s apology for some peoples misunderstanding of what he was saying. He never disparaged the entire faith of Islam.

I’m not letting this go Path Finder.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Jihad is much more complex than that. Wars of agression are prohibited without exception. A war may only be waged in defense of Islam for the preservation of the faith. Jihad is fought internally through regular prayer, pilgrimage, good deeds, and regular charity. It can be waged externally by defending the faith and those who practice it from aggressors. Walking onto a train with the intent to murder innocent people is a perversion of the Quran and the concept of Jihad just as much as the LRA is a perversion of the Bible and Christianity.
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Yes, I agree with you regarding Islam. But please throw in, now and then, a good word for the Hebrew Bible as well. Judaism does NOT believe in conversion or enslavement. Yes, the violence portrayed does not look too good on the surface, but there is a back story and more to Judaism than just that!
 
ringil said:
The Church states the truths of other faiths, such as paganism which, in the view of the Church, has no real value. The same is said of animism, witch-craft, etc. . . .

And I will find Benedict’s apology for some peoples misunderstanding of what he was saying. He never disparaged the entire faith of Islam.

I’m not letting this go Path Finder.
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I’m glad you are not letting it go because it comes down to the old saw,

“Not all ____________ are terrorists but most all Terrorists are ___________”

The Church is a peacemaker, yes, the Church tells us truths but they don’t tell us all of the truths, because they are peacemakers.

I’m not letting this go Ringil, because this is the same thing our abortion supporting president says.

And what? I guess it is not politically correct when the news reports say “A jihadist carried out this attack”, well, this doesn’t save lives to ignore the truth.
 
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