Absolute Truth

  • Thread starter Thread starter b_justb
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

b_justb

Guest
It looks like the “Religious Tolerance” thread got erased, and just when it was getting interesting.

So, let us continue.

It seems my stance that there is Absolute Truth has caused some on the forum to be shocked, dismayed, and even angry. Why is that? Why is proclaiming that there is Absolute Truth cause such ill feelings among posters?

Do you think there is or is not Absolute Truth? Does one saying boldly and unapologetically that there is Absolute Truth cause others to think or consider such a person as “Religiously Intolerant”? What does “Religiously Tolerant” or “Religiously Intolerant” mean to you?
 
I believe there is absolute truth. Only through the grace of God will our limited human minds ever be able to grasp even the minutest part of His truth, but there is absolute truth. We certainly do not posses it all, but I believe God has bestowed part of His truth to us. If this upsets people it can only be because they lack conviction about their particular beliefs. Just my opinion though…
 
People get upset because they have so much invested in their current beliefs. For most it defines them culturally, emotionally, relationally, religiously, rationally, etc. The idea that what they always took for granted might be wrong can be too much to bear. And those who have decided on relativism have found a comfort zone for themselves they don’t want disturbed. Of course, this is all because of the fall of man when our nature was corrupted, our intellect darkened, and our will weakened.
 
40.png
Della:
People get upset because they have so much invested in their current beliefs. For most it defines them culturally, emotionally, relationally, religiously, rationally, etc. The idea that what they always took for granted might be wrong can be too much to bear.
Click to expand...
I think that’s fair.

But if a person is sure of his position, belief, faith, etc. Why would being confronted with an absolutist viewpoint be threatening?

I believe there is absolute truth. I also believe that each of us sees that in a unique way. Our unique viewpoint doesn’t alter the Absolute Truth. Rather we the viewers are always in alteration because our view of that Absolute Truth is in constant flux. Wouldn’t seeing or trying to understand varying views go to enhance one’s own view of Absolute Truth?

I don’t see where holding to the idea of Absolute Truth is “Religiously Intolerant.” But we haven’t really come to a conclusion to what “Religiously Intolerant” means to some, so we’ll wait on that I reckon.
 
40.png
b_justb:
Hi Joe - Sorry to duplicate your thread title. The original thread I was talking about that got erased was “Religious Tolerance.” But I forget who started it.

Should I change the thread tittle? How do I do that?
Click to expand...
the heck if i know. Don’t care either way.
 
I believe there is absolute truth and that is God. I think we as Catholic’s have the fullness of the truth, as much as a human can have, but I don’t believe we have absolute truth. Humans are corrupt, and yes the Holy Spirit guides the Church, but that doesn’t mean the Church has absolute truth. I feel any institution requiring cooperation from humans will not contain absolute truth.

I also don’t think the Catholic Church having the fullness of the truth means that Islam, Judaism, or other religions have no truth. I think there is a lot of truth in Islam, and Judaism, just no the fullness of the truth.

I have no idea if that will make any sense to anyone, but that’s my take on it.
 
40.png
b_justb:
It looks like the “Religious Tolerance” thread got erased, and just when it was getting interesting.

So, let us continue.

It seems my stance that there is Absolute Truth has caused some on the forum to be shocked, dismayed, and even angry. Why is that? Why is proclaiming that there is Absolute Truth cause such ill feelings among posters?

Do you think there is or is not Absolute Truth? Does one saying boldly and unapologetically that there is Absolute Truth cause others to think or consider such a person as “Religiously Intolerant”? What does “Religiously Tolerant” or “Religiously Intolerant” mean to you?
Click to expand...
It comes down to the use and way of it was used, if a Hindu came to me and said that he followed the way of absolute truth and I should convert, of course I’m going to think him intolerant and pompous, because I think the Catholic Church contains the absolute truth, but if I said that around most protestants then they would think bad of me and etc…, etc… To many people think they have the absolute truth and thus are offended when someone denies theirs and proclaims theirs and thus denying the other so someone’s has to be wrong and nobody like to be called wrong, especially about their faith, right?
 
Now if you take the stand that the Jesus teaches only one Absolute Truth. Then which truth to you follow, The Catholic Churches version of the truth or one of the 30,000 truths being taught by Protestants.
 
40.png
Mike_D30:
I believe there is absolute truth and that is God. I think we as Catholic’s have the fullness of the truth, as much as a human can have, but I don’t believe we have absolute truth. Humans are corrupt, and yes the Holy Spirit guides the Church, but that doesn’t mean the Church has absolute truth. I feel any institution requiring cooperation from humans will not contain absolute truth.

I also don’t think the Catholic Church having the fullness of the truth means that Islam, Judaism, or other religions have no truth. I think there is a lot of truth in Islam, and Judaism, just no the fullness of the truth.

I have no idea if that will make any sense to anyone, but that’s my take on it.
Click to expand...
Makes sense to me! Well said! 👍
 
40.png
b_justb:
I think that’s fair.

But if a person is sure of his position, belief, faith, etc. Why would being confronted with an absolutist viewpoint be threatening?
Click to expand...
Beats me! 😃 I am sure of my beliefs, but I don’t feel threatened by someone else’s, who has an absolutist position about what they believe. I can understand why they think they are right from their perspective, although that doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. I suppose the inability to understand that might be what makes some people feel threatened. What do you think?
I believe there is absolute truth. I also believe that each of us sees that in a unique way. Our unique viewpoint doesn’t alter the Absolute Truth. Rather we the viewers are always in alteration because our view of that Absolute Truth is in constant flux. Wouldn’t seeing or trying to understand varying views go to enhance one’s own view of Absolute Truth?
Click to expand...
I guess it’s a case of the elephant being examined by the blind men. Yes? The elephant is real enough, but what each perceives it to be depends on what aspect of it they can conprehend. Still, in religious beliefs, there is usually a system of belief that must hang together in order for it to be believable, especially in our modern world that questions everything. Some belief systems and/or their founder’s ideas and actions don’t live up to that standard, so for those who hold to them it becomes a challenge to make it seem reasonable to others. Or something like that!
I don’t see where holding to the idea of Absolute Truth is “Religiously Intolerant.” But we haven’t really come to a conclusion to what “Religiously Intolerant” means to some, so we’ll wait on that I reckon.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s religiously intolerant, either to hold to one’s own beliefs. I think it religiously intolerant to claim that others can have no glimmer of the truth within their religious beliefs. That is patently false, isn’t it?
 
40.png
Mike_D30:
I think there is a lot of truth in Islam, and Judaism, just no the fullness of the truth.
Click to expand...
I’ve started to wonder if God possibly revealed some of his truths in different ways to each of the 3 Abrahamic religions, giving each group a special purpose and mission and challenges. Not saying that I believe this, but I think it’s possible…maybe.

As for intolerance, it’s any faith that says they are the ONLY path to salvation and if you don’t agree or go along, you are condemned to hell and/or should not be associated with. I think that we all have our own path to salvation and we have to find it. And for me, the Catholic Church has the best and most accurate map to get there. I certainly don’t believe that all other faiths are condemned. I have known people of other faiths that I couldn’t imagine God NOT accepting them into Heaven. I’ve also seen some “Catholics” that don’t seem to be headed in the right direction. Just some random thoughts on it.
 
40.png
Della:
I suppose the inability to understand that might be what makes some people feel threatened. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Well since ya asked 😉 … I think you’re right on. I think that people that get flustered, irritated, annoyed, and or hostile when it comes to discussions about their faith when that faith view is questioned or confronted have one or several problems. It maybe as simple as their communication style or skills are not on par with the person who is confronting them. Or they are not comfortable with communicating their faith; even if they are very sure of it. Or, and this is the one I think is most likely, they are insecure about their place in their faith. They are unsure of it as a reality and it maybe only an emotional or philosophical outlet, not a personal reality. These insecurities manifest themselves as anger or frustration.
40.png
Della:
I don’t think it’s religiously intolerant, either to hold to one’s own beliefs. I think it religiously intolerant to claim that others can have no glimmer of the truth within their religious beliefs. That is patently false, isn’t it?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if this is true, or false, or partially so, either way. I have to be careful here not to break forum rules of etiquette. I’ll use me as an example, maybe that will be safest.

I don’t see me as religiously intolerant because I don’t seek to forcefully alter anyone’s views on faith. I have mine and will tell you in no uncertain terms what they are if want me to. But if you do, realize that I’ll be blunt, and by blunt I mean some would call it rude. It seems that some would call me religiously intolerant and others would not. From this I see “Religious Intolerance” as a relativistic phrase. Or if we don’t like the term relative, maybe we can use relational.

Maybe “Religious Intolerance” is in the eye of the beholder.
 
40.png
rstegeman:
I’ve started to wonder if God possibly revealed some of his truths in different ways to each of the 3 Abrahamic religions, giving each group a special purpose and mission and challenges. Not saying that I believe this, but I think it’s possible…maybe.
Click to expand...
This is a very interesting thought to look at.
 
40.png
b_justb:
Well since ya asked 😉 … I think you’re right on. I think that people that get flustered, irritated, annoyed, and or hostile when it comes to discussions about their faith when that faith view is questioned or confronted have one or several problems. It maybe as simple as their communication style or skills are not on par with the person who is confronting them. Or they are not comfortable with communicating their faith; even if they are very sure of it. Or, and this is the one I think is most likely, they are insecure about their place in their faith. They are unsure of it as a reality and it maybe only an emotional or philosophical outlet, not a personal reality. These insecurities manifest themselves as anger or frustration. I don’t know if this is true, or false, or partially so, either way. I have to be careful here not to break forum rules of etiquette. I’ll use me as an example, maybe that will be safest.

I don’t see me as religiously intolerant because I don’t seek to forcefully alter anyone’s views on faith. I have mine and will tell you in no uncertain terms what they are if want me to. But if you do, realize that I’ll be blunt, and by blunt I mean some would call it rude. It seems that some would call me religiously intolerant and others would not. From this I see “Religious Intolerance” as a relativistic phrase. Or if we don’t like the term relative, maybe we can use relational.

Maybe “Religious Intolerance” is in the eye of the beholder.
Click to expand...
Well… nobody likes to hear that what they beleive in is wrong, especially when it comes to strong faith beleifs. Some get hostile, I get defensive and will question why they disagree with me. Anyone whos talked to me on a subject and we disagreed knows that I ask for reasons and then provide others to show why I don’t beleive what they do. Often they can’t come back with anythng. I’m not intolerate either, as most people who I have talked to can say. I do though have a set of beleifs that when attacked or questions, must be defended.
 
40.png
b_justb:
Well since ya asked 😉 … I think you’re right on. I think that people that get flustered, irritated, annoyed, and or hostile when it comes to discussions about their faith when that faith view is questioned or confronted have one or several problems. It maybe as simple as their communication style or skills are not on par with the person who is confronting them. Or they are not comfortable with communicating their faith; even if they are very sure of it. Or, and this is the one I think is most likely, they are insecure about their place in their faith. They are unsure of it as a reality and it maybe only an emotional or philosophical outlet, not a personal reality. These insecurities manifest themselves as anger or frustration. I don’t know if this is true, or false, or partially so, either way. I have to be careful here not to break forum rules of etiquette. I’ll use me as an example, maybe that will be safest.
Click to expand...
This how I see it, too.
I don’t see me as religiously intolerant because I don’t seek to forcefully alter anyone’s views on faith. I have mine and will tell you in no uncertain terms what they are if want me to. But if you do, realize that I’ll be blunt, and by blunt I mean some would call it rude. It seems that some would call me religiously intolerant and others would not. From this I see “Religious Intolerance” as a relativistic phrase. Or if we don’t like the term relative, maybe we can use relational.
Click to expand...
Maybe “Religious Intolerance” is in the eye of the beholder.
Click to expand...
I’ve also been accused of being rude in defense of my faith, but that was not my intention, either. I was just laying it out in plain language, but to many even that is too challenging to their sensibilities.

You are so right that the term “religious intolerance” is far too subjective to be useful to anyone. Those who have fully embraced political correctness mean a far different thing by that phrase than I think you and I do.

This is what makes it impossible to talk to them–they can’t even agree on basic terms. And no one can argue with another’s feelings, so it becomes an endless debate in semantics with everyone talking past one another or it descends into personal attacks or one or more in the discussion quits in disgust.

As long as others won’t/can’t agree over the very words we are using how can we share ideas with them? We can’t, IMHO.
 
40.png
Della:
This is what makes it impossible to talk to them–they can’t even agree on basic terms. And no one can argue with another’s feelings, so it becomes an endless debate in semantics with everyone talking past one another or it descends into personal attacks or one or more in the discussion quits in disgust.

As long as others won’t/can’t agree over the very words we are using how can we share ideas with them? We can’t, IMHO.
Click to expand...
I agree. Personally, I don’t “preach” to any non-catholics regarding my faith mostly because of this. I know that I don’t care for it when they, especially the JWs and Mormons, come preaching about there faith and criticizing mine. If someone asks me about my faith, I will discuss it and let them know why it’s right for me. Also, if I’m I hear someone bashing the Catholic faith, I will defend it as best I can. I just have to work on remaining level headed when discussing it. Too many times I get too emotional and all logic is out the window. In any event, I think much more comes across to others through our actions.
 
What about this?

I agree with alot of whats posted but then I thought of a book by Charles J Rolls on the many names and titles of Christ.

**To quote in part:

"Jesus saying I AM the way, the truth. John 14:6

He is the spirit of Truth, He will guide you into all truth John 16:13

The character of Truth as the Truth is in Jesus Eph 4:21

We beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and TRUTH John 1:14

Christ is the personfication of the Word of God and the wisdom of God. Truth is not truth because of age but because of accuracy, truth is always and altogether correct, consistent and crystal clear. We should give rapt attention to the character of Christ and the command of Christ because He is the Truth and truth has no defects or deformities that need to be eliminated. Truth has no retractions to make."

end quote**

Truth makes us uneasy, we are unable to achieve it. Christ being Truth convicts us of what we should strive for. And if that conviction or another way to put it is;

*knowing what we really should do if we were honest with ourselves *

Now this will drive us away (so we dont have to face it) or towards Christ for strength to deal with that thing we dont want to deal with.

None of us are able to be truthful, nor is any organization we humans run. We can only look to Jesus who is the pure source of Truth for a example of what Truth as described above is. And then strive to follow the Truth when He says:

“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you” John 15:12
 
Kitty Chan:
Truth makes us uneasy
Click to expand...
“Truth has always bothered people and is never comfortable.”
Cardinal Ratzinger, October 9, 2000
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top