Acts 10:44 - Holy Spirit before Baptism? How can I explain?

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Elzee

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I know there are a lot of places in the Bible that show we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized, but this one appears to say the opposite and I was told this week this proves baptism is not necessary to receive the Holy Spirit -* only belief**. *Can someone help me?

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."
 
As with the Eunoch it was a sign from God. First the Jews, then those who wished to be part of the covenant of Judaism, (the eunoch also has another significance being a eunoch), Lastly to let Peter know it was time to bring the gospel and the New Covenant to the gentiles.

Several things are going on in both those instances. Peter going into the house of a gentile, food laws, entry into the covenant, basically what is clean and unclean according to God.

However they are non normative means which were signs from God. You’ll notice afterwards they are back to what is normative, baptism then the Holy Spirit etc.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Elzee:
I know there are a lot of places in the Bible that show we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized, but this one appears to say the opposite and I was told this week this proves baptism is not necessary to receive the Holy Spirit -* only belief***. Can someone help me?

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."
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That was clearly an extraordinary event in Scripture, it doesnt happen regularly, the Gentiles were OFFICIALLY accepted into the Church. And as we see it didnt mean they didnt have to get Baptized, they did, in fact it was the first thing they were to do.

Acts 19 says:
1 While Apol’los was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
Here we see that the Holy Spirit works in different ways, in this case these men DIDNT speak in tongues when they heard and believed. They learned as much as they could from John the Baptist, but there was more to learn and Paul got them up to speed. In this case they are Baptized in the new way and confirmed by Paul.

Clearly the Gentile’s case was an extraordinary event showing us that God had officially accepted them without being circumcised.
 
I understand what you’re saying to some extent, but Acts 19 that you have below seems to imply you receive the gift of tongues when you receive the Holy Spirit (although I also know Paul says this gift isn’t for everyone - in 1 Corin, I believe? - so I think I’m okay with my undestanding there)

But, I get confused again (sorry), because in Chapter 11:16-17 it says:

John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?

I understand this says ‘be **baptized **with the Holy Spirit’, but it ALSO says this gift was given when ‘we believed’ (not when baptized). *Doesn’t this seem to say that the normative means of receiving the Holy Spirit could also be when we believe, instead of just when we are baptized? *
 
One of the first things to remember is that baptism is the sacrament of faith. A crucial verse in scripture that makes the connection between faith and baptism is Mark 16:16 which says,

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

Moreover, it is necessary to read all of the verses concerning baptism and all of the verses concerning the Holy Spirit. We receive the Holy Spirit at baptism, but we also receive the Holy Spirit and special charisms at other times in life. The entire book of Acts shows how the infant church went through an incredible period of growth. This growth was the product of an unprecedented “outpouring” (read baptism) of the Holy Spirit. It is improper to pit baptism by the Holy Spirit against water baptism where a person also receives the Holy Spirit.

People sometimes forget that the Holy Spirit came upon individuals in the OT that were never given Christian baptism nor did they know or believe in the name of Jesus. An example of this is found in 1 Samuel 16:13 where it says of David, “and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward.” There are numerous other examples in both the NT and OT where the Holy Spirit comes upon someone without them knowing about Jesus. God does as he wills. While we are to conform ourselves to his word, his church, and his sacraments…God himself is not confined by them. The special outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts is a prime example of God doing what was needed to jump start and launch his Church within the Jewish and Gentile populations after Pentecost.
 
In thinking of baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit you may want to consider the following:

Ezk 36:25-28
I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will remove from your body the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Compare this to ACTS 2:37-38

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?” Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Going statement for statement we see an unmistakable pattern and prefiguring in Ezekiel and it is clear that God will use water to cleanse us (forgive our sins), that he will change our hearts (and they were cut to the heart), and that he will put a new spirit within us(we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.) Beyond this we read the following NT scriptures.

Matthew 3:15-17
But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented. And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him; and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

In this passage we see Jesus receiving baptism. Obviously, Jesus did not need baptism as we do. Nevertheless, Jesus is baptized for two reasons. One is to “fulfil all righteousness” This makes holy and efficacious baptism for all Christians of all times. Secondly we see that Jesus receives the Holy Spirit. Thus we are shown what takes place for us in baptism. We receive the Holy Spirit and we become adopted sons and daughters and we are made pleasing to God. That is we are made righteous before the Lord.

I will let the following passage serve as further testimony but without additional comment because they stand in support with no need of explanation:

ACTS 19:1-7
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve of them in all.

I hope this helps.
 
Thank you. The verse from Ezk is one of my favorites I had forgotten about.

I need to remember to not focus on one verse as much as I do sometimes and remember to take it in context with other verses on the same topic.

This all helps a lot. Thanks everybody!
 
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Elzee:
I know there are a lot of places in the Bible that show we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized, but this one appears to say the opposite and I was told this week this proves baptism is not necessary to receive the Holy Spirit -* only belief***. Can someone help me?

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."
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Elzee,

**The key words there are “Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have recieved the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” The answer to the question is no, no one should forbid water for baptism. Then Peter ordered them to be baptized, obviously baptism is done with water. In other words when asking that question what Peter was really asking for is for someone to provide them with water for the purpose of baptizing them. **It’s like smiling and saying to the waiter at the local Red Lobster restaurant: “Can anyone forbid me to eat shrimp and lobster while I’m hungry?” It’s just a fancy saying for demanding the shrimp and lobster.

**Just because you’re not baptized it doesn’t mean that you are unable to feel spiritual ecstacy or feel like the Holy Spirit is working in you. Remember, there exists the baptism of desire. Plus, just because the person feels that warm fuzzy feeling durring prayer, doesn’t mean the person does not have to be baptized. That spiritual feeling is a calling to baptism and to the Church. **
 
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Roman_Army:
**Just because you’re not baptized it doesn’t mean that you are unable to feel spiritual ecstacy or feel like the Holy Spirit is working in you. Remember, there exists the baptism of desire. Plus, just because the person feels that warm fuzzy feeling durring prayer, doesn’t mean the person does not have to be baptized. That spiritual feeling is a calling to baptism and to the Church. **
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Good case for Baptism of Desire:thumbsup:
 
The Holy Spirit can come at different times in different ways. For instance, the Holy Spirit came upon the Virgin Mary at the Jesus’ conception (Luke 1:32) and the Apostles received the Holy Spirit on the evening of the first day of the week after Jesus rose from the dead (John 20:22), the Apostles and Mary were filled with the Holy Spirit again five weeks later on Pentacost (Acts 2:4), and Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit yet again when he spoke before the Sanhedrin (Acts 4:8).

We receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at Baptism and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit at Confirmation. Speaking in tongues is a separate, extraordinary gift of the Holy Spirit, as is the gift of prophecy, which, the Holy Spirit gives to whomever He wills, even to non-Christians and even to non-humans, as in the case of the pagan prophet Balaam and his tongues-speaking donkey in the Old Testament (Numbers 2:28)

There is no reason to believe that Cornelius and company received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that properly comes from Baptism when they received the extraordinary gift of speaking in tongues.
 
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Elzee:
I know there are a lot of places in the Bible that show we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized, but this one appears to say the opposite and I was told this week this proves baptism is not necessary to receive the Holy Spirit -* only belief***. Can someone help me?

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."
Click to expand...

If this proves anything - not that it does; a single verse by itself can’t prove anything, anymore than a single sentence from a single newspaper could - it proves that the Holy Spirit moves as He Wills. He is not tied down by the tidy doctrinal schemes of theologians and bishops and churches; not even by the Bible - for this is God we are talking about, not a glove-puppet. He is big enough to do what He likes.​

There may well be a parallel with an incident in the book of Numbers; especially as in Acts 10 Peter says that “Now I perceive that God is no respecter of persons” - a lesson also driven home just after the Transfiguration (e.g. in Mark 9) ##
 
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