aliens vs gods

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thinkandmull

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Last Friday I was watching the show Ancient Aliens on the History channel. Some of it is
interesting, some of it is definitely inconclusive. They’ve been playing it every Friday for at least a year. Anyway, I had some thoughts from it that refer to philosophy. One is the idea of magic. What is magic? If somebody who did not believe in the supernatural said something was “magic” while someone else claimed it was “impenetrable complex science”, is there really a difference between their views? There sounds like there is, based on what we have grown up attaching to the word magic. But what is the thought attached to it? Is there anyway to explain the difference? Secondly, the show claims that the gods of ancient religions were really aliens. What does this mean? What does supernatural religion vs alien religious mean? If a religion believes their gods have bodies, how are they not aliens with great powers? We feel a difference between the words alien and gods, but is there any substance to it? Food for discussion… Lastly, when the “evidence for aliens” is presented by people, I think of how similar they are to arguments for God’s design. How can an atheist say “there looks like design but its not a person doing it” and turn around and say “it looks like alien activity, so there must be personal aliens involved and not just a force (or the Force)”? Comments please…
 
thinkandmull said:
Last Friday I was watching the show Ancient Aliens on the History channel. Some of it is
interesting, some of it is definitely inconclusive. They’ve been playing it every Friday for at least a year. Anyway, I had some thoughts from it that refer to philosophy. One is the idea of magic. What is magic? If somebody who did not believe in the supernatural said something was “magic” while someone else claimed it was “impenetrable complex science”, is there really a difference between their views? There sounds like there is, based on what we have grown up attaching to the word magic. But what is the thought attached to it? Is there anyway to explain the difference? Secondly, the show claims that the gods of ancient religions were really aliens. What does this mean? What does supernatural religion vs alien religious mean? If a religion believes their gods have bodies, how are they not aliens with great powers? We feel a difference between the words alien and gods, but is there any substance to it? Food for discussion… Lastly, when the “evidence for aliens” is presented by people, I think of how similar they are to arguments for God’s design. How can an atheist say “there looks like design but its not a person doing it” and turn around and say “it looks like alien activity, so there must be personal aliens involved and not just a force (or the Force)”? Comments please…
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I’ve never heard of that show, but it sounds entertaining. But what you say resonates with me; I’m reminded of 200:1 A Space Odyssey.

Check out Arthur C. Clarke’s Third Law.
 
Well aspects of early Ancient Aliens were of much interest, however the cash cow is being milked beyond logic. I think they even got to the point of suggesting Albert Einstein didn’t do what he did but rather it was Aliens!!! Oh my!

But the issue that is lost is aliens (I am not against their existence) are not any more impressive than humans. They are just living critters. I could see them being “responsible” for some lower gods etc… (though the lack of physical evidence of physical beings and their pointless leaving casts a lot of doubt) but they would still be created. Even if we were long lost descendants of the planet Omackron Persei 8 it would not explain our true origins anymore than if we are from earth. I mean I am in one state, from another…but wait did I originate there? Oh My ancestors came from Europe…AND South America??? uh oh where do I come from? hmmmmmmmmm

Also, they never cover the simple fact that if we were from or involved with ancient aliens…wouldn’t they if God were God tell us of God? Pope Francis said he would baptize aliens, So if we went to meet some primal people on another planet wouldn’t we tell them of God? And if we humans stopped going to the planet they would be in the same place 10,000 years later lol.
 
LethalMouse said:
Well aspects of early Ancient Aliens were of much interest, however the cash cow is being milked beyond logic. I think they even got to the point of suggesting Albert Einstein didn’t do what he did but rather it was Aliens!!! Oh my!

But the issue that is lost is aliens (I am not against their existence) are not any more impressive than humans. They are just living critters. I could see them being “responsible” for some lower gods etc… (though the lack of physical evidence of physical beings and their pointless leaving casts a lot of doubt) but they would still be created. Even if we were long lost descendants of the planet Omackron Persei 8 it would not explain our true origins anymore than if we are from earth. I mean I am in one state, from another…but wait did I originate there? Oh My ancestors came from Europe…AND South America??? uh oh where do I come from? hmmmmmmmmm

Also, they never cover the simple fact that if we were from or involved with ancient aliens…wouldn’t they if God were God tell us of God? Pope Francis said he would baptize aliens, So if we went to meet some primal people on another planet wouldn’t we tell them of God? And if we humans stopped going to the planet they would be in the same place 10,000 years later lol.
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The first 1 or 2 seasons of Ancient Aliens were very good, proving that the technology of the Ancients was much more advanced than we give them credit for.

However, a lot of the newer seasons has moved into conspiracy theories (i.e. NASA cover ups, Einstein receiving help from aliens, etc.). They have started to stretch things pretty far.

Is it possible that the “gods” of Hindu, Ancient Greece, Egypt, The Maya, The Inca, The Sumerians, etc were aliens? Sure. All of those “gods” seem to be non-transcendent. They don’t even sound like angels or demons (though I guess they could be).

The likelihood of ancient humans making up such complicated, detailed religions is hard to imagine; so there is most likely some truth to their legends.

But whether it was demonic or alien, we won’t know until (a) the aliens land or (b) we become one with God

God Bless.
 
thinkandmull said:
Secondly, the show claims that the gods of ancient religions were really aliens. What does this mean? What does supernatural religion vs alien religious mean? If a religion believes their gods have bodies, how are they not aliens with great powers? We feel a difference between the words alien and gods, but is there any substance to it? Food for discussion… Lastly, when the “evidence for aliens” is presented by people, I think of how similar they are to arguments for God’s design. How can an atheist say “there looks like design but its not a person doing it” and turn around and say “it looks like alien activity, so there must be personal aliens involved and not just a force (or the Force)”? Comments please…
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It’s all speculation. There are some interesting evidence on the show. There’s an online book called Earth’s Forbidden Secrets which points to evidence around the world to suggest that advanced humans have existed on earth much longer than evolution indicates. The author is not trying to suggest that God made us or aliens helped us evolve, but that human history might need to be reexamined. I do find it perplexing how they can create an entire show based on the idea that aliens created or developed humanity, but not one that suggests a supernatural origin for the world and the universe. I prefer the Fermi paradox in the argument on extraterrestrials. As far as I’m concerned, until aliens reveal themselves to us or we find a way to explore distant planets, we have to assume we are alone in the universe so we must focus on improving earth and humanity.
 
phil19034 said:
The first 1 or 2 seasons of Ancient Aliens were very good, proving that the technology of the Ancients was much more advanced than we give them credit for.

However, a lot of the newer seasons has moved into conspiracy theories (i.e. NASA cover ups, Einstein receiving help from aliens, etc.). They have started to stretch things pretty far.

Is it possible that the “gods” of Hindu, Ancient Greece, Egypt, The Maya, The Inca, The Sumerians, etc were aliens? Sure. All of those “gods” seem to be non-transcendent. They don’t even sound like angels or demons (though I guess they could be).

The likelihood of ancient humans making up such complicated, detailed religions is hard to imagine; so there is most likely some truth to their legends.

But whether it was demonic or alien, we won’t know until (a) the aliens land or (b) we become one with God

God Bless.
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Could also not be so cut and dry. Perhaps as the meme says “why not both?” The bible says the true religion was bastardized, Judiasm was formed by God to keep Him accurate. Hinduism starts with a central God and diverts into who knows what. It is logical that Angels etc were morphed into gods and such. Also there is aspects in which the “gods” are extensions of an actually monotheistic God basically if we saw the burning bush as a seperate “person” etc… so then the trinity would expand. Then in bastardized form gods would be worshipped independently. Because as I understand it Brahmanism hold Brahman as a God with trinity… then hinduism expands that into angels/demons being all part of God with seperate worship.

Well what if people started worshipping demons etc… AND aliens came even if the aliens taught of the one true God they (like how angels had to set the record straight) were later morphed into deities?
 
LethalMouse said:
Could also not be so cut and dry. Perhaps as the meme says “why not both?” The bible says the true religion was bastardized, Judiasm was formed by God to keep Him accurate. Hinduism starts with a central God and diverts into who knows what. It is logical that Angels etc were morphed into gods and such. Also there is aspects in which the “gods” are extensions of an actually monotheistic God basically if we saw the burning bush as a seperate “person” etc… so then the trinity would expand. Then in bastardized form gods would be worshipped independently. Because as I understand it Brahmanism hold Brahman as a God with trinity… then hinduism expands that into angels/demons being all part of God with seperate worship.

Well what if people started worshipping demons etc… AND aliens came even if the aliens taught of the one true God they (like how angels had to set the record straight) were later morphed into deities?
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Yes, it could be both. I didn’t not mean to imply it had to be one or the other.

Thanks and God Bless
 
It’s all speculation. The Chinese had over 100 gods and goddesses. I own part of a multi-volume guide to the various gods. For example, one god had seven swords. What did they do? Not explained. The Chinese also had 18 layers of hell. And they burn Hell money for the deceased. It gets even more complicated than that.

There is no evidence for aliens but for remarkable ancient technology, like the Antikythera mechanism.

phys.org/news/2011-04-ancient-greek-device-reveal-secrets.html

Ed
 
So what I’m hearing is that gods and magic are transcendent. I know what that means, but a lot of moderns have difficulty understanding it and I was wondering if there is any way to clearly explain it too them

P.S. The Pope said we would baptize aliens? What the heck
 
thinkandmull said:
Last Friday I was watching the show Ancient Aliens on the History channel. Some of it is
interesting, some of it is definitely inconclusive. They’ve been playing it every Friday for at least a year. Anyway, I had some thoughts from it that refer to philosophy. One is the idea of magic. What is magic? If somebody who did not believe in the supernatural said something was “magic” while someone else claimed it was “impenetrable complex science”, is there really a difference between their views? There sounds like there is, based on what we have grown up attaching to the word magic. But what is the thought attached to it? Is there anyway to explain the difference? Secondly, the show claims that the gods of ancient religions were really aliens. What does this mean? What does supernatural religion vs alien religious mean? If a religion believes their gods have bodies, how are they not aliens with great powers? We feel a difference between the words alien and gods, but is there any substance to it? Food for discussion… Lastly, when the “evidence for aliens” is presented by people, I think of how similar they are to arguments for God’s design. How can an atheist say “there looks like design but its not a person doing it” and turn around and say “it looks like alien activity, so there must be personal aliens involved and not just a force (or the Force)”? Comments please…
Click to expand...
Magic is an interference with the usual course of physical nature. It is attempted by recitation of formularies, gestures, mixing of incongruous elements, and other mysterious actions. The knowledge of this is obtained from God, the Devil, the world soul, etc., but it is an attempt to perform miracles but not by the power of God. The use of hidden forces beyond man’s control is by supplications to a Deity to get the desired result – by evoking powers ordinarily reserved to the Deity.
 
Even as a person who believes in aliens and believes they have visited our planet, I do not hold ‘ancient aliens’ tv show in high regard, it is mostly an attempt to draw people away from God, using a popular theme in secular society (aliens / UFOs). If you notice some of the shows, they will try to explain Gods actions in the bible as alien activity.

This is nothing more than satan ‘masquerading’ as something else, but his goal is always the same, fooling the people, Aliens and UFOs are very popular right now, many tv shows and movies about them, increasing number of people believe they are here or are coming. This is one reason why I believe they will play some part in the end times confusion, MANY people would be easily convinced of some contact event when it is something else entirely.
 
I have studied UFOs for many years. There are solid objects flying through the skies. I have determined they are man-made, secret aircraft. There is no evidence of aliens.

TV shows that present such things should be revealed for what they are, fiction based on no evidence or, at best, misinterpretations, and the presentation of ancient symbology in an incorrect way. There are myths that have a grain of truth and others that are nothing but imagination.

UFOs are not as popular as they once were. I have many books on the subject.

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
I have studied UFOs for many years. There are solid objects flying through the skies. I have determined they are man-made, secret aircraft. There is no evidence of aliens.

TV shows that present such things should be revealed for what they are, fiction based on no evidence or, at best, misinterpretations, and the presentation of ancient symbology in an incorrect way. There are myths that have a grain of truth and others that are nothing but imagination.

UFOs are not as popular as they once were. I have many books on the subject.

Ed
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How come none of this secret technology has filtered down yet though? I know what you are saying, but go look at UFO witness reports from the 50s and 60s, they are identical to modern ones, same kinds of shapes, triangle is the most prevalent (which I think has something to do with the trinity personally, but thats another topic), lack of any sound, ‘buzzing electric’ type feeling in the air, capabilities are the same too, if the military had top secret aircraft like this back in the 60s, 70s or even 80s, some of it would be seen in normal aircraft, if they had anti-gravity technology decades ago, I tend to think they would be using it everywhere.

I do agree our Govt probably is responsible for some of the UFO sightings, but not all of them. Many of the reports I read weekly consist of physical symptoms associated with the sighting as well, feelings of fear, peace, sudden headache, nauseous, etc

God even told us there was much we did not understand and know about, I think these things are part of that, we only call them aliens, because it seems most logical to us, but they may be something else entirely, something we have no clue about, but I guarantee God knows and has a purpose for them.
 
mikekle said:
How come none of this secret technology has filtered down yet though? I know what you are saying, but go look at UFO witness reports from the 50s and 60s, they are identical to modern ones, same kinds of shapes, triangle is the most prevalent (which I think has something to do with the trinity personally, but thats another topic), lack of any sound, ‘buzzing electric’ type feeling in the air, capabilities are the same too, if the military had top secret aircraft like this back in the 60s, 70s or even 80s, some of it would be seen in normal aircraft, if they had anti-gravity technology decades ago, I tend to think they would be using it everywhere.

I do agree our Govt probably is responsible for some of the UFO sightings, but not all of them. Many of the reports I read weekly consist of physical symptoms associated with the sighting as well, feelings of fear, peace, sudden headache, nauseous, etc

God even told us there was much we did not understand and know about, I think these things are part of that, we only call them aliens, because it seems most logical to us, but they may be something else entirely, something we have no clue about, but I guarantee God knows and has a purpose for them.
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Before the Gulf War, many UFO sightings in the Nevada desert turned out to be the Stealth Fighter.

The government typically doesn’t release information on failed experiments or discontinued projects / prototypes for many decades.

They don’t want other countries to know how advanced the tests are.
 
Where did the aliens come from? Who created them? You still need God, the unmoved mover.

I prefer to believe what God has revealed to us about our origins than what some con artist tv show about aliens has to say about it.
 
mikekle said:
How come none of this secret technology has filtered down yet though? I know what you are saying, but go look at UFO witness reports from the 50s and 60s, they are identical to modern ones, same kinds of shapes, triangle is the most prevalent (which I think has something to do with the trinity personally, but thats another topic), lack of any sound, ‘buzzing electric’ type feeling in the air, capabilities are the same too, if the military had top secret aircraft like this back in the 60s, 70s or even 80s, some of it would be seen in normal aircraft, if they had anti-gravity technology decades ago, I tend to think they would be using it everywhere.

I do agree our Govt probably is responsible for some of the UFO sightings, but not all of them. Many of the reports I read weekly consist of physical symptoms associated with the sighting as well, feelings of fear, peace, sudden headache, nauseous, etc

God even told us there was much we did not understand and know about, I think these things are part of that, we only call them aliens, because it seems most logical to us, but they may be something else entirely, something we have no clue about, but I guarantee God knows and has a purpose for them.
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I really understand where you are coming from. Everything costs money. Disruptive technologies that could wipe out the oil industry? And most aircraft manufacturers?

That is the simple answer, and secrecy. Patents exist that show how early versions of these aircraft worked. Not by antigravity but by an internal mechanism which creates the buzzing sound. Various documents exist that show that regardless of what the public thought, these objects were a concern for the military, but since they were secret, military pilots were ordered not to talk about their sightings, and this order was later expanded to include commercial pilots as well.

A few examples:

The US and Canada both followed a procedure called CIRVIS, or Communication Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings. This was part of a poster with simple illustrations of the objects of interest. It included a domed flying saucer. This began in 1951. Next is JANAP, or Joint Army Navy Air Force Publication, which expanded on reporting restrictions, and instructions.

These aircraft were used for aerial reconnaissance along with known aerial reconnaissance aircraft. Sometimes, they would descend for a closer look at objects of interest.

Ed
 
It seems that when we evangelize, we usually say “your gods didn’t exist” or “they were demons”. But if they convince us they were good and the experiences were real, I think we can assume they were angels or God’s manifestation, or perhaps nice aliens at least.

A lot of weird stuff is popular because of popular media’s culture. Does anyone have an opinion of time travel?
 
Time travel movies don’t often make much sense. To give an example of what I’m talking about, take the Hindu idea that we are all the person-god Perusa. If I am someone else, then I have either experienced their life or will so in the future. The reality of experience as a continual process remains intact even if time travel is possible. If I go back in time and see myself, that self I would be seeing will be experienced by me in the future since I haven’t experience it yet. Even as I talk to myself, the conversation is only experienced by me in the now because I just went back in time. The experience of being talked to by the time traveling me will be an experience I will have to have in the future somehow. So its not true to say “if you go back in time and kill your ancestors you wouldn’t have existed” because you must have existed in order to go back in time. The line from them to you still happened. Perhaps if you killed them you would cease to exist, but that would be just saying you went into the past and died, and your ancestors had an experience after their death (which is previous to the time traveling) of being killed by you after their first death on earth in the normal time line. In those senses time travel may be possible, but most movies on this subject ignore the fact of consciousness being a continual connected experience.
 
My personal opinion is that people make too big a deal out of it
 
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