Altar Boys

[JPII_the_Great]

Recently, the priests in my church began using only altar boys - no altar “girls.” It has created a bit of an uproar. I know that in some quarters of the church, altar boys are preferred. Why? (besides the fact that it helps with vocations to the priesthood).

 

[jmcrae]

Recently, the priests in my church began using only altar boys - no altar “girls.” It has created a bit of an uproar. I know that in some quarters of the church, altar boys are preferred. Why? (besides the fact that it helps with vocations to the priesthood).

That’s really the reason - that it helps with vocations to the priesthood.

The Church does not consider girls to be inferior to boys, and anything that sounds like that is just wrong. Boys are just as likely to misbehave as girls are, and they also twitch and fidget just as much as girls do.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[dylanschrader]

It’s not just a purely functional matter of increasing boys’ awareness of the priesthood, the liturgical symbolism is better.

Service at the altar is oriented toward the priesthood. In fact, “altar boys” are assistants to acolytes, who are always male, and who are instituted in the Church to assist the priest and deacon at the altar. The Ministry of Acolyte has been, from ancient times, one of the “minor orders” that a man attained before becoming a priest and also was in the early Church a more permanent state to which men then–as well as now–were instituted.

This is the letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship on permitting girls and women to assistance at the altar.

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

I also remember hearing someone argue on Relevant Radio that having altar girls ‘scares’ away the boys (and thus a missed opportunity for formation of priests). At first I thought that was a pretty thin argument but now that my son is almost 8, I can see how he’d be less inclined to be a server.

 

[jmcrae]

I also remember hearing someone argue on Relevant Radio that having altar girls ‘scares’ away the boys (and thus a missed opportunity for formation of priests). At first I thought that was a pretty thin argument but now that my son is almost 8, I can see how he’d be less inclined to be a server.

It may or may not be true that boys don’t like girls, but that, and any other reasons of sexism, are not the real reasons that boys are preferred for service at the Altar. The Church does not teach that “girls are icky” and nor does it encourage or cater to such a dehumanizing belief. You can read MULIERIS DIGNITATEM (ON THE DIGNITY AND VOCATION OF WOMEN for more information on the Church’s attitude toward women.

 

[kleary]

Recently, the priests in my church began using only altar boys - no altar “girls.” It has created a bit of an uproar. I know that in some quarters of the church, altar boys are preferred. Why? (besides the fact that it helps with vocations to the priesthood).

Well basically because there were no “altar girls” until Rome caved in, like Communion in the hand, on liberals desiring change in Church doctrine.

I saw how “altar girls” happened. I watched mothers of little girls push them to be “candle bearers” and the parish priest stick up for them for “entroaching in an area that used to be open only to men”.

The proponents for altar girls are those for female priests plain and simple. They want to have you, the ordinary person in the pew get accustomed to see females in roles that used to be only open to men.

Every time I see an “altar girl” I recall the Episcopalian liturgies I have witnessed and wanna puke my guts out.

Traditionally (1962 Missal), no woman is allowed to have any liturgical role or function whatsoever. The only time a woman is even allowed to enter beyond the Altar Rail is when she is baptized as an infant when the priest takes her and places her on the High Altar, the holiest place in the church after her baptism, and also when she is married and makes her vows at the foot of the altar with her husband.

Ken

 

[Rykell]

Kleary:

The proponents for altar girls are those for female priests plain and simple. They want to have you, the ordinary person in the pew get accustomed to see females in roles that used to be only open to men.

I sincerely doubt that this is motivation behind using altar girls, and may be just your idea.

Every time I see an “altar girl” I recall the Episcopalian liturgies I have witnessed and wanna puke my guts out.

I was just thinking the same thing whenever I read posts like this.

Traditionally (1962 Missal), no woman is allowed to have any liturgical role or function whatsoever.

Is it true, then, that you don’t follow the universal Church, only the 1962 missal? Females are permitted to be EMHC’s and lectors. A bit of traditionist liturgical elitism?

How does your post answer the OP’s question?

.

 

[THurifer2]

I also remember hearing someone argue on Relevant Radio that having altar girls ‘scares’ away the boys (and thus a missed opportunity for formation of priests). At first I thought that was a pretty thin argument but now that my son is almost 8, I can see how he’d be less inclined to be a server.

This post explains it in a previous discussion.

SOmone there had mentioned that when altar Girls showed up their parish experienced a significant decline in older boys serving. I believe they also mentioned that one of the boys at the time was a strong priestly candidate who left the altar boy corps the day the girls showed up. I remember when girls showed up…it was the day we lost our cassocks and surplices and 1/2 of the boys never returned.

 

[ncjohn]

The proponents for altar girls are those for female priests plain and simple. They want to have you, the ordinary person in the pew get accustomed to see females in roles that used to be only open to men.

Oh, please!

There may indeed be a few people who support the idea of female priests and simultaneously think that altar girls are ok, but to believe that *all * (or even most) people who think it’s perfectly fine for girls to serve at the altar believe that–in accordance with what the Church allows–goes far beyond judgmental.

THurifer2:

I remember when girls showed up…it was the day we lost our cassocks and surplices and 1/2 of the boys never returned.

That may indeed have been your experience. We never found any such thing. The boys and girls served alongside each other and nobody ever thought anything of it.

There is much speculation that it reduces vocations, but to the best of my knowledge nobody has shown any evidence whatsoever that that is true. If there is someone around who can draw the interest in vocations, I feel more than sure that those who have a calling will respond, regardless of whether a parish has girls serving at the altar, and nobody has shown anything that would refute that.

Besides, in my personal opinion, if a boy thinking about the priesthood is that anti-female that he would withdraw simply over a girl serving alongside him, I personally don’t want him as my parish priest one day.

Regardless of whether one thinks they should have been allowed, the simple truth is that the Church has said it is ok. For people to be judging motivations and denigrating people for doing something the Church says is ok starts to put them on very shaky ground IMHO.

Peace,

 

[Brendan]

There is also the reason that it falls in line with the Pope’s personal practice as well.

The Altar Boy cadre in the Vatican are just that, boys. Girls are not permitted. So if it’s good enough for the Pope, why not the local parish as well?

In addition, the use of Altar Girls is just an indult, not the normative practice of the Church.

The Vatican has said on many occasions that a priest does not have to use women in service at the Altar if he does not wish to do so.

Since the Vatican has given the priests that right, who are we to complain?

 

[Brendan]

There is much speculation that it reduces vocations, but to the best of my knowledge nobody has shown any evidence whatsoever that that is true. If there is someone around who can draw the interest in vocations, I feel more than sure that those who have a calling will respond, regardless of whether a parish has girls serving at the altar, and nobody has shown anything that would refute that.,

John,

How many many men does your parish have in the seminary right now?

Our parish has an all male altar boy cadre. They start at age 5 (age 4 with the pastors apporval) and will continue to serve until they head off to college.

Out of a parish of 800-ish families, we have 6 men in the seminary right now, and have had 6 other men from our parish ordained to the priesthood in the last 10 years.

The 3 parishes in our Archdiocese that have all male altar boy cadres produce about 20% of the vocations. 3 parishes, out of 400+ with less that .5% of the registered Catholics produce over 20% of the vocations.

So why is God calling men in our Archdiocese from the all male altar boy parishes at MUCH higher rates than He calls them from other parishes?

 

[ncjohn]

There is also the reason that it falls in line with the Pope’s personal practice as well.

The Altar Boy cadre in the Vatican are just that, boys. Girls are not permitted. So if it’s good enough for the Pope, why not the local parish as well?

In addition, the use of Altar Girls is just an indult, not the normative practice of the Church.

The Vatican has said on many occasions that a priest does not have to use women in service at the Altar if he does not wish to do so.

Since the Vatican has given the priests that right, who are we to complain?

Nobody here is disputing, as far as I know, a priest’s prerogative to decide to not use them.

What is being questioned is people’s implication that there is something wrong with a girl serving when the Church has said it is ok. Whether it is by indult or not is irrelevant; the Church has approved it and nobody should then be questioning or denigrating those who do so in accordance with the Church’s approval.

If someone wants their daughter to serve in a parish where the priest has chosen to not allow them, they need to respect that or move to another parish. But making judgments about those who legitimately do so in parishes where the priests allow it starts to get into the “more Catholic than the Pope” realm.

Peace,

 

[ncjohn]

John,

How many many men does your parish have in the seminary right now?

Our parish has an all male altar boy cadre. They start at age 5 (age 4 with the pastors apporval) and will continue to serve until they head off to college.

Out of a parish of 800-ish families, we have 6 men in the seminary right now, and have had 6 other men from our parish ordained to the priesthood in the last 10 years.

The 3 parishes in our Archdiocese that have all male altar boy cadres produce about 20% of the vocations. 3 parishes, out of 400+ with less that .5% of the registered Catholics produce over 20% of the vocations.

So why is God calling men in our Archdiocese from the all male altar boy parishes at MUCH higher rates than He calls them from other parishes?

As I said, when there is someone who is good at promoting vocations, there will be a response. Your parish is obviously blessed with such a person, as are priests in our diocese.

In the end, it is GOD who makes the calling though, and if God calls and one ignores the call because a girl happens to serve next to him at Mass, something is desperately wrong. And I just don’t buy that what is wrong is the girl serving next to him.

So, while your personal story is wonderful, it sill is no indication whatsoever of any statistical correlation between all boy altar servers and vocations, though it might indicate that priests who prefer all boy servers tend to be better at promoting vocations. I have seen nothing to support that either though.

Peace,

 

[Rykell]

In addition, the use of Altar Girls is just an indult, not the normative practice of the Church.

Seems to me that people put a lot of faith in indults. It’s anticipated to be an excellent good if the Church allows the M.P. for the TLM, but not good if the Church allows an indult for female altar servers? I guess traditionists are able to pick and choose which indults are to be followed and respected.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I also remember hearing someone argue on Relevant Radio that having altar girls ‘scares’ away the boys (and thus a missed opportunity for formation of priests). At first I thought that was a pretty thin argument but now that my son is almost 8, I can see how he’d be less inclined to be a server.

This was the reason that our Bishop has asked parish priest to recruit boys over girls for altar service.

It has taken root in my parish, but we nearly had only girls as altar servers at one point.

Boys won’t do what they see as a girl thing, even in this day and age.

Jim

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

The Church does not teach that “girls are icky”

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember reading something in the Catechism about girls being icky and something about cooties too.

 

[scylla]

Catholics should always support tradition, so it is more in line with Catholicism to go what is traditional rather than changing the practice to suit modern customs.

An indult then would be respected if it is in line with maintaining truth and tradition. If it is allowed because of an abuse for “pastoral reasons” then it should be repudiated.

So lets say that Priests start showing up without vestments and eventually the USCCB ask for an indult. Would it then be better to not use vestments?
Now lets say they get rid of vestments yet then allow an indult to use them, would it be better to try and restore them?
They are not absolutely necessary it is tradition that reflects truth. Which is what tradition is, a reflection of truth.

All Catholics are traditionalists if they want to maintain truth and the image of truth.​

Now on to altar girls, I know of plenty of families that have altar girls and see no problem with it and we shouldn’t judge them but share truth with them.

It is unfortunate that many don’t see that to promote altar girls is to play directly into the hands of the enemy. Initially Altar Girls were promoted not because of an indult but because of a rejection of authority or disobedience which was directly opposed to truth.
Not because this was a Catholic tradition that needed to be upheld but because there were some who rejected Catholic tradition to do their own thing. Primarily because of the want for women priests.

This resulted in the allowance of Altar Girls which then became the norm in many places. Families then pretty much ignorant of the roots of the allowance, in good concience allow\encourage their little girls to be Altar Girls, all the while not knowing the roots of the position.

Now this is a big problem how do you inform people who innocently allow their girls to serve, that doing this is supporting the agenda of those who support disobedience and women priests. Most think it is just allowing girls to serve God.

This is the problem at this parish, when a priest decides to do what is right, and people complain.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[scylla]

Seems to me that people put a lot of faith in indults. It’s anticipated to be an excellent good if the Church allows the M.P. for the TLM, but not good if the Church allows an indult for female altar servers? I guess traditionists are able to pick and choose which indults are to be followed and respected.

Or course you pick and choose what is good over what is bad.

There was an indult to allow most anyone to purify the vessels after Mass, this has expired and rightly so. It is the Priests job to do this, He is the one who serves the people and is the ordinary minister of the Eucharist. It is all based on truth or a reflection of truth.

We all pick and choose what is good over what is bad. It is bad to destroy tradition is it good to maintain it.

In Christ
Scylla

(by the way I have never attended a TLM and grew up with the NO, but I realize truth radition is important and as Catholics must be maintained)

 

[Brendan]

Seems to me that people put a lot of faith in indults. It’s anticipated to be an excellent good if the Church allows the M.P. for the TLM, but not good if the Church allows an indult for female altar servers? I guess traditionists are able to pick and choose which indults are to be followed and respected.

Actually, I see just the opposite. There are storms of Catholics who get their noses bent out of joint when a priest decides NOT use the indult for Altar Girls.

Why not let the priest decide on both? That way, the parishioners can decide where they want to go.

Heck, I mostly approve of the indult to use the vernacular at Mass, but if a priest decided to use the normative Latin in a normative N.O. Mass with the normative use of all males for altar service with Communion on the tounge (normative), I’m all for it and you won’t hear a peep of complaint from me. (in fact, that would be my ideal Mass)

From the Tradiitionalists, all I hear is a request for one single Indult.

From the other side, a Mass has to be several indultive practices or else they scream and holler.