As Israelis Are Tried in a Palestinian’s Murder, Agonizing Intimacy in Court

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Abba said:
The teenager, a second youth and one adult, Yosef Haim Ben-David, 30, are on trial in Jerusalem District Court, charged with the abduction and premeditated murder of a Palestinian teenager, Muhammad Abu Khdeir. He was snatched off a street near his East Jerusalem home, driven to a forest, beaten unconscious and burned to death in the early hours of July 2, 2014.

nytimes.com/2015/07/07/world/middleeast/as-israelis-are-tried-in-a-palestinians-murder-agonizing-intimacy-in-court.html?_r=0
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While very sad, I’m not sure I see the point of the post. What discussion are you trying to start?
 
ucfengr said:
While very sad, I’m not sure I see the point of the post. What discussion are you trying to start?
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Well, it is a news article, and this is the news forum. We read too often about missile attacks against Israeli civilians and military retribution against Palestinian civilians. I, for one, appreciate an article that shows the horror at the personal level. Three young men were consumed with rage, and committed a senseless act of revenge against an innocent boy. A life was taken and many lives (on both “sides”) are shattered.

Let us work for peace. Let us pray for peace.
 
ucfengr said:
While very sad, I’m not sure I see the point of the post. What discussion are you trying to start?
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That’s a loaded question.

I am not priest, never was, never could be, never will be. So, you may want to discuss my statement with a priest. Personally, I think it is a sin to attempt to filter and manipulate the information that gets to the masses with the attempt to manipulate their thinking. I think it is a violation of their human dignity.

Furthermore, I think it is good that people are aware their is a trial going on. This will put pressure on israel to render justice and not condone and applaud the action. Just like they did last week with the killing of the four children. Last summer, four Palestinian children were playing soccer at the beach, soldiers killed them in cold blood as if they were not human beings. Well, last week israel exonerated itself and applauded the actions of the soldiers.

The israeli government needs to behave responsible and know that the world is expecting it to do so. How will the world know if news venue filter and do not provide the information to the masses? They arm, encourage and applaud the actions of the settlers.

Attempting to hide what is really going on in the Middle East to manage the thinking of the masses is not good for anyone - not even israel. Even Madeleine Albright has expressed concern about the mental health of the israelis. And speaking of mental health, let’s not forget that the last two psychiatrists of Netanyahu (a.k.a. Bibi) committed suicide. They could not take the lunacy he was given them.

News and people should not be censored in an attempt to promote a political understanding. It’s unhealthy.

p.s. Some people claim that if they had been alive during the holocaust they would have helped the jews. We said we will not forget - but it seems as though we have. For it is happening to the Palestinians and many look to the other side. It’s not cool to speak up, just as it was not cool to speak up for the jews in WWII. I don’t buy their claim, because if they would have had the courage then they can have it right now for the Palestinians.
 
Abba said:
That’s a loaded question.

I am not priest, never was, never could be, never will be. So, you may want to discuss my statement with a priest. Personally, I think it is a sin to attempt to filter and manipulate the information that gets to the masses with the attempt to manipulate their thinking. I think it is a violation of their human dignity.

Furthermore, I think it is good that people are aware their is a trial going on. This will put pressure on israel to render justice and not condone and applaud the action. Just like they did last week with the killing of the four children. Last summer, four Palestinian children were playing soccer at the beach, soldiers killed them in cold blood as if they were not human beings. Well, last week israel exonerated itself and applauded the actions of the soldiers.

The israeli government needs to behave responsible and know that the world is expecting it to do so. How will the world know if news venue filter and do not provide the information to the masses? They arm, encourage and applaud the actions of the settlers.

Attempting to hide what is really going on in the Middle East to manage the thinking of the masses is not good for anyone - not even israel. Even Madeleine Albright has expressed concern about the mental health of the israelis. And speaking of mental health, let’s not forget that the last two psychiatrists of Netanyahu (a.k.a. Bibi) committed suicide. They could not take the lunacy he was given them.

News and people should not be censored in an attempt to promote a political understanding. It’s unhealthy.

p.s. Some people claim that if they had been alive during the holocaust they would have helped the jews. We said we will not forget - but it seems as though we have. For it is happening to the Palestinians and many look to the other side. It’s not cool to speak up, just as it was not cool to speak up for the jews in WWII. I don’t buy their claim, because if they would have had the courage then they can have it right now for the Palestinians.
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Why do you capitalize the proper noun “Palestinians” and “Middle East”, but not the proper nouns “Israel” or “Jews”? You did it in several places, so I assume it’s intended. And, really, what’s the point of the (unsourced) comment about the Israeli Prime Ministers psychiatrists? You don’t know what went on in their sessions.
 
ucfengr said:
Why do you capitalize the proper noun “Palestinians” and “Middle East”, but not the proper nouns “Israel” or “Jews”? You did it in several places, so I assume it’s intended.
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Nope, it wasn’t intended. I also typed ‘their’ when I should have typed ‘there’. i don’t think the far right Israeli Zionists represent Judaism or the Jewish people. Some of my Jewish friends say - NOT IN MY NAME.

Do you have a problem with the fact that I capitalized ‘Palestinians’?
 
Abba said:
p.s. Some people claim that if they had been alive during the holocaust they would have helped the jews. We said we will not forget - but it seems as though we have. For it is happening to the Palestinians and many look to the other side. It’s not cool to speak up, just as it was not cool to speak up for the jews in WWII. I don’t buy their claim, because if they would have had the courage then they can have it right now for the Palestinians.
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This is nothing but raw anti-Semitism. There is nothing comparable with what is going on between the Israelis and the Palestinians with what happened to European Jews at the hands of the Nazis. To start, European Jews didn’t launch rockets at German cities or fill their cafes with suicide bombers.
Abba said:
Do you have a problem with the fact that I capitalized ‘Palestinians’?
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Why would I; I capitalized it.
 
ucfengr said:
This is nothing but raw anti-Semitism. There is nothing comparable with what is going on between the Israelis and the Palestinians with what happened to European Jews at the hands of the Nazis. To start, European Jews didn’t launch rockets at German cities or fill their cafes with suicide bombers.

Why would I; I capitalized it.
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This is nothing but Anti-Palestinianism and blind Pro-Israelism and an attempt to cover up the barbaric, inhuman crimes being committed against the Palestinian and other people of the Middle East by the Israelis.

What do you think of the story? It’s pretty cruel and barbaric what was done to Abud Khdeir. Don’t you think? Or do you think only the loss of an Israel life deserve such publicity? Do you think young Abud Khdeir is less human than you or I?

 
Abba said:
This is nothing but Anti-Palestinianism and blind Pro-Israelism and an attempt to cover up the barbaric, inhuman crimes being committed against the Palestinian and other people of the Middle East by the Israelis.
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You know, the peaceful, non-Jewish people of the Middle East seem to do a pretty good job of committing barbaric, inhuman crimes on their own people, without Israeli help. Does that bother you too, or do you only get exercised about Jews?
Abba said:
What do you think of the story? It’s pretty cruel and barbaric what was done to Abud Khdeir. Don’t you think? Or do you think only the loss of an Israel life deserve such publicity? Do you think young Abud Khdeir is less human than you or I?

http://mondoweiss.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tumblr_n83xa3EATc1s07lipo1_1280.png
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As I said in my original comment, I found it very sad, though I was curious about the point of you posting it. It’s the kind of thing that happens around the world many times a day. People brutally kill other people for revenge, or because they’re of a different tribe, or because the worship God differently dozens of times every single day. What’s so special about this occasion?
 
I ask myself that alot because when muslims are so much as involved in renting a church there is mass outrage. Vandalism is heightened to hysterical proportions o f being a purely muslim problem, but when jewish extremists vanadalize/put hateful graffii on churches it gets ignored and met with silence.
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ucfengr said:
European Jews didn’t launch rockets at German cities or fill their cafes with suicide bombers.
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Tell me, how many terrorist attacks does it take to make this much damage:

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/syria040513/s_s10_RTR3EJU7.jpg

Or this:



And this:

“The number includes 578 children, 264 women, and 103 elderly, while more than 11100, including 3374 children, 2088 women and 410 elderly, were injured.” imemc.org/article/68429

And the mosques:

The ancient mosques of Gaza in ruins: How Israel’s war endangered Palestine’s cultural heritage middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/14041-the-ancient-mosques-of-gaza-in-ruins-how-israels-war-endangered-palestines-cultural-heritage

As Israelis cheered from mountain tops the bombing attacks and the destruction of mosques (in much the same way they cheered the bombing of the Twin Towers):

Israeli soldier films bombing of a mosque in Gaza, cheers destruction
youtube.com/watch?v=6AiJoNBaYJw

Not even schools nor hospitals were off limits. The university was targeted and the UN facilities.

**How many terror attack did Israel commit Summer of 2014?

Pure terrorism. Terrorism at it’s best.**
 
Thank you JharekCamelian for this quote. :bighanky: I know they toll for me.
 
ucfengr said:
And, really, what’s the point of the (unsourced) comment about the Israeli Prime Ministers psychiatrists? You don’t know what went on in their sessions.
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The second of Netanyahu psychiatrists to commit suicide left this note:

"Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been his patient for the last nine years, had “sucked the life right out of me.” “I can’t take it anymore,” wrote Yatom. “Robbery is redemption, apartheid is freedom, peace activists are terrorists, murder is self-defense, piracy is legality, Palestinians are Jordanians, annexation is liberation, there’s no end to his contradictions. Freud promised rationality would reign in the instinctual passions, but he never met Bibi Netanyahu. This guy would say Gandhi invented brass knuckles.” legalienate.blogspot.com/2010/06/psychiatrist-of-israeli-prime-minister.html

If you want more just do a little research it doesn’t hurt.
ucfengr said:
Does that bother you too, or do you only get exercised about Jews?
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Is this pretended ignorance or are you serious? Please don’t put words in my mouth. It’s not about Jews even though you would love to cover the Israelis crimes by playing the anti-semitism card. The card has been misused one too many times and it is worn out.

**The bells tolled for you too ** last summer, over 3,000 times - but you did not hear them. You did not hear when they tolled for you thousands of times before then and the thousands of times after. And they are still tolling.
 
ucfengr said:
This is nothing but raw anti-Semitism.
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You hear that more from American supporters of Israel than from the Israelis themselves. It is amazing that in the US, anyone who speaks up about Israeli terrorism and war crimes is likely to be labeled “anti-Semitic,” while in Israel they can tolerate dialogue on the subject.

Also I note that Palestinians are Semites too, at least according to this dictionary definition:
Semite: a member of a group of people originally of southwestern Asia that includes Jews and Arabs
Does that mean Israel is anti-Semitic?
 
Abba said:
Attempting to hide what is really going on in the Middle East to manage the thinking of the masses is not good for anyone - not even israel. Even Madeleine Albright has expressed concern about the mental health of the israelis. And speaking of mental health, let’s not forget that the last two psychiatrists of Netanyahu (a.k.a. Bibi) committed suicide. They could not take the lunacy he was given them.

News and people should not be censored in an attempt to promote a political understanding. It’s unhealthy.

.
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Abba said:
The second of Netanyahu psychiatrists to commit suicide left this note:

"Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been his patient for the last nine years, had “sucked the life right out of me.” “I can’t take it anymore,” wrote Yatom. “Robbery is redemption, apartheid is freedom, peace activists are terrorists, murder is self-defense, piracy is legality, Palestinians are Jordanians, annexation is liberation, there’s no end to his contradictions. Freud promised rationality would reign in the instinctual passions, but he never met Bibi Netanyahu. This guy would say Gandhi invented brass knuckles.” legalienate.blogspot.com/2010/06/psychiatrist-of-israeli-prime-minister.html

If you want more just do a little research it doesn’t hurt.

Is this pretended ignorance or are you serious? Please don’t put words in my mouth. It’s not about Jews even though you would love to cover the Israelis crimes by playing the anti-semitism card. The card has been misused one too many times and it is worn out.

**The bells tolled for you too ** last summer, over 3,000 times - but you did not hear them. You did not hear when they tolled for you thousands of times before then and the thousands of times after. And they are still tolling.
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Abba—I don’t see how you can cry “censorship!” considering that you provided an article in the New York Times.

Do you realize that the blog article you quoted about Netanyahu’s purported psychiatrists committing suicide is a piece of satirical fiction?
 
AbideWithMe said:
Abba—I don’t see how you can cry “censorship!” considering that you provided an article in the New York Times.

Do you realize that the blog article you quoted about Netanyahu’s purported psychiatrists committing suicide is a piece of satirical fiction?
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The articles are far and few in between and most are presented with a twist.

Just did a little while ago. I read about it on Twitter and quickly skimmed the article. It’s a good satire.
 
It’s because I thought it was factual when I posted. After my post I went back to look into it more and actually read the whole article. I was taken aback by the claim that Netanyahu tied the psychiatrist and locked him in the basement. It did not seemed right and I realized it was a satire. So, if anything, I am embarrassed that I did not realize it was a satire right away. I apologize for presenting it as factual but just to clear, when I posted I thought it was factual. It happens. In Twitter it is presented as factual and I thought they were telling the truth, maybe some are know is a satire but present it as truthful and other did not get it was a satire and really do think it is true.

What ‘under tones’ are you referring to?

If you did not get my use of the bighanky: well - it is 100% sincere. Your post actually made my eyes water. I suffered last summer every bombing in solidarity with the Palestinians. I saw every picture of the dead children, women, elderly as they came up. I lived their tragedy every day and I prayed for them every day.

I apologize to no one for my position with the Palestinians. If you want to back out - go ahead.
 
Abba said:
It’s because I thought it was factual when I posted. After my post I went back to look into it more and actually read the whole article. I was taken aback by the claim that Netanyahu tied the psychiatrist and locked him in the basement. It did not seemed right and I realized it was a satire. So, if anything, I am embarrassed that I did not realize it was a satire right away. I apologize for presenting it as factual but just to clear, when I posted I thought it was factual. It happens. In Twitter it is presented as factual and I thought they were telling the truth, maybe some are know is a satire but present it as truthful and other did not get it was a satire and really do think it is true.

What ‘under tones’ are you referring to?

If you did not get my use of the bighanky: well - it is 100% sincere. Your post actually made my eyes water. I suffered last summer every bombing in solidarity with the Palestinians. I saw every picture of the dead children, women, elderly as they came up. I lived their tragedy every day and I prayed for them every day.

I apologize to no one for my position with the Palestinians. If you want to back out - go ahead.
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Abba - I agree this is tragic. All lives are equally precious, no matter if they are Palestinian or Israeli, don’t you think?
 
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