Aussie Priests Complaining

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Two Victorian Catholic priests have called the church’s leadership dictatorial, remote and lacking in compassion.

The Age today reports that Father Len Thomas of Ivanhoe West and Father Peter Foley of Belmont have released a statement in which they state the church “has suffered in heart and mind from a backlash against Vatican II”, the council of bishops that sought to modernise the church in the 1960s.

Yesterday Father Foley said Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney and Australia’s senior Catholic cleric, had the attitude “if you are not with us, you’re against us”, and Catholics now had a lack of tolerance.

He said he had spoken to Cardinal Pell when he was archbishop of Melbourne and to his successor, Archbishop Denis Hart, and that, at 68, he did not fear sanctions by the church leadership.

“It’s a cry from the heart. I don’t want notoriety. I’ve been working for this diocese for 42 years,” he said.

In the statement the priests say the Melbourne diocese’s new office of evangelisation, which aims to increase church attendances, is “regarded with suspicion - as an excuse, a cover, a sop to the Vatican”.

Melbourne Vicar-General Les Tomlinson, a spokesman for Archbishop Hart, said the priests’ views were not universally held. “There may be a question there of a personal agenda which they feel frustrated over,” he said.

cathnews.com/news/412/125.php
 
All heresy begins below the belt. I would like a few questions answered by this priest. I never see conflicts about mundane theological issues. It always goes back to gender and genital contact. The issues are always the same… sodomy, birth control, inclusive language, priestesses, etc.
 
When did people start thinking The Catholic Church is a democracy?
 
Just going on what is reported, I suspect that Fr. Thomas and Fr. Foley are pushing radical forms of Mass and Prayer. The Cardinal is resisting a change to Evangelical Catholocism for fear of losing attendance. Remember I said, based on what is reported.
 
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Lance:
When did people start thinking The Catholic Church is a democracy?
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Well poor Pell has had his hands and his plate filled since he got the job of cardinal - there appeared to be a large liberal - excuse me, “progressive” group, which lamented his appointment as Cardinal publicly before he ever got his hat. Their remarks at the time were so rude and ignorant, you knew at once what kind of a life they were going to try and make him lead.

They are pushing hard to keep their “agenda” going apparently while Pell has been trying to bring the church back to a stable, cohesive force in the country. He really takes a great deal of “guff” from them, both publicly and I assume privately as well. IMO Pell is serving his purgatory here on earth. God bless him.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Well poor Pell has had his hands and his plate filled since he got the job of cardinal - there appeared to be a large liberal - excuse me, “progressive” group, which lamented his appointment as Cardinal publicly before he ever got his hat. Their remarks at the time were so rude and ignorant, you knew at once what kind of a life they were going to try and make him lead.

They are pushing hard to keep their “agenda” going apparently while Pell has been trying to bring the church back to a stable, cohesive force in the country. He really takes a great deal of “guff” from them, both publicly and I assume privately as well. IMO Pell is serving his purgatory here on earth. God bless him.
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I just don’t understand why people want to call themselves Catholic if they don’t want to follow the teachings of The Church. Why don’t they have the guts to do what Luther did and leave?
 
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Lance:
I just don’t understand why people want to call themselves Catholic if they don’t want to follow the teachings of The Church. Why don’t they have the guts to do what Luther did and leave?
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Once out they become just another rag tag bunch of sour grapes dissidents. Staying in they have the titles, the authority of the church and of course the perqs depending on their station in life.

Let’s face it - without the Catholic Church where would people like McBrien, Kissling and Power be and what would they be doing? Looking for a job somewhere and having to worry like the rest of us about mortgages, utilities and putting gas in the tank with no authority behind us at all.
 
Coincidentally, there is an article in this month’s Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity about the state of all Christian churches in general in Australia. Unfortunately, the article is not available online, but it’s worth reading if you are interested in that sort of thing. The author was discussing how Australia is a very secular state yet its churches are generally more conservative than other European-heritage countries because of a failing movement from the sixties (the Uniting church). The Roman Catholic church in Australia was one of the notable exceptions to this conservative trend, except, the article noted, the area in close proximity to Sydney. The author of the article is a Presbyterian. If anyone is interested, I will go and find the article, otherwise, I’ll just be lazy and stay downstairs. 🙂
 
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HagiaSophia:
Once out they become just another rag tag bunch of sour grapes dissidents. Staying in they have the titles, the authority of the church and of course the perqs depending on their station in life.

Let’s face it - without the Catholic Church where would people like McBrien, Kissling and Power be and what would they be doing? Looking for a job somewhere and having to worry like the rest of us about mortgages, utilities and putting gas in the tank with no authority behind us at all.
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Excellent point. I never thought to look at it in that light. Better to be the egg sucking guard dog than the fox trying to get into the hen house.
 
The Hidden Life:
Coincidentally, there is an article in this month’s Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity about the state of all Christian churches in general in Australia. Unfortunately, the article is not available online, but it’s worth reading if you are interested in that sort of thing. The author was discussing how Australia is a very secular state yet its churches are generally more conservative than other European-heritage countries because of a failing movement from the sixties (the Uniting church). The Roman Catholic church in Australia was one of the notable exceptions to this conservative trend, except, the article noted, the area in close proximity to Sydney. The author of the article is a Presbyterian. If anyone is interested, I will go and find the article, otherwise, I’ll just be lazy and stay downstairs. 🙂
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If you could post the hi-lites of the article I would like to read them.
 
“Speaking Out Down Under: Divided Christians in Australia Are Engaged in a Culture War of Their Own” by David J. Palmer (from December 2004 Touchstone)

The first part of the article goes over the details of the Muslim complaint against Christians under the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act of 2001 because of a Pentecostal group (Catch the Fire Ministries) allegedly encouraging Melbourne Christians to “reach out to minister among the growing Muslim community.”

The article goes on to suggest that the Act actually promotes disharmony in Australia, rather than the intended harmony between the majority Christians and minor religious groups.

Interesting quote:

“As the Anglican bishop Robert Forsyth of Sydney said in his 2001 Acron lectures, multiculturalists have a static and therefore inadequate view of culture in that they believe that religion is contiguous with culture, thus making religious identity hereditary. Islam and Christianity will never be confined in such cultural boxes, and so trying to achieve social cohesion by silencing missionary religions will never work.”

(continued)
 
If only the Muslim countries that outlaw conversions could come to this realization!

Anyway, the second part of the article outlines the divisions between Australian Christians based mainly on the homosexual issues. He says Australian culture in general is more conservative than American, thus, the passage of the Marriage Amendment Act of 2004, a “fabulous victory…fought entirely by the Christian community.”

The next section outlines the history of Christian churches in Australia.

"Australian Protestant church life became dominated by theological liberalism in the 1950s and 1960s. Particularly afflicted were the Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists, while the Anglicans, Lutherans, and Baptists were less affected. It then proceeded to collapse dramatically under the impact of the sexual and theological revolution of the 1960s. Virtually none of those who were youth in the liberal churches of the 1960s and 1970s remain in the church today. The flag-bearer for liberalism in Australia, the Uniting Church, a 1977 merger of the Methodist Church and most of the Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches, declined in weekly attendance by 22 percent in the 1990s, a decline that has likely accelerated since.

Other factors affected the churches of course. The introduction of Sunday-morning sports in the 1960s was a particular disaster for the churches."

He goes on to say that the Anglicans in Australia are more conservative than the British/American/Canadian churches and that if a split occurs, they may align with the South American and African churches rather than the the “West.”

He mentions that Pentecostalism is on the rise and preaching a health and wealth theology, which is a development from the obsession with end times preached in the past.

(continued)
 
As for the Catholic church in Australia, Palmer writes that they are in sorry shape similar to reasons the USA church is facing in some parts. Aging priests that are overworked, lack of vocations, sex abuse (which he notes are “almost wholly involving long-past homosexual behavior”) , and lots of bickering about Archbishop George Pell of Sydney, who defends orthodoxy.

There is little conversion momentum between churches right now. The Orthodox churches “keep to themselves.” The Presbyterians are enlivened by recent influx of previously evangelized Asians and Africans.

He notes that most of the denominations in Australia have women ministers other than the Catholic, Orthodox, Presbyterian and Reformed Churches and Anglicans in Sydney. (Strange, I came from the Presbyterian church in the USA and we had women ministers?) He notes that the women in the other denominations that enter seminary are mostly in their forties and fifties and that they are in little demand as pastors and their appointment generally leads to a loss of parishioners, disproportionately male.

To see more of Touchstone www.touchstonemag.com

LeeAnn
 
The Hidden Life:
Coincidentally, there is an article in this month’s Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity about the state of all Christian churches in general in Australia.
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I also found the article interesting. Thankk you, HL.

The article relates to the internal state of the various churches. In general though, I have the impression that many Australians are not particularly religous. The beach culture, beer, or whatever.

Is that true? In the U.S. the estimates are that only about one-quarter of Catholics attend Church on Sundays regularly. And many of those most probably have many reservations about the teachings of the Church.

Would this be the same in Australia?
 
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