Bible Passages on Fornication

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I have a friend who seems to be convinced that fornication is not something against Christian doctrine. I know that it certainly is against it, but the Bible is such a large book, I don’t know where to start to find Biblical support. Would someone mind helping me? I’m sure someone has a list for a case like this somewhere:D .
 
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FuzzyBunny116:
I have a friend who seems to be convinced that fornication is not something against Christian doctrine. I know that it certainly is against it, but the Bible is such a large book, I don’t know where to start to find Biblical support. Would someone mind helping me? I’m sure someone has a list for a case like this somewhere:D .
There are many references to fornication in both OT and NT but for me this one below spells it out absolutely clearly and unambiguously.

1 Cor 6:9 "Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor aldulterers nor boy prostitutes not sodomites not thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God"
 
On a similar note, I recently heard premarital sex defended from a Biblical standpoint on the grounds that fornication does not refer to premarital sex or any related act, but rather, merely to illegal sex. Because premarital sex was not necessarily illegal by the laws of Rome, the objector said that the Bible does not condemn premarital sex. Could someone please elaborate on this claim for me? I had never heard it before.
 
www.dictionary.com defines fornication as

Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.

The laws of Rome? Since when do the laws of Rome matter? In the Old Testament, one wasn’t allowed intercourse if one wasn’t married. Its probably a fair guess to say that this was LAW there. And in Rome: since when has there been illegal sex? If a Roman male wanted to sleep with something, that Roman male is going to sleep with it.
Definitions of fornication on the Web:
Actually, this would probably interest you.

206.135.15.32/answers/afornica.html
 
Question: if premarital sex is a sin, then how come the couple in The Songs of Solomon aren’t married, having sex, and not condemned for it?
 
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CrossoverManiac:
Question: if premarital sex is a sin, then how come the couple in The Songs of Solomon aren’t married, having sex, and not condemned for it?
  1. What evidence do you have that they were not, at some point in the book at least, married?
  2. What evidence do you have that they were making love?
Your assumptions confuse me. :confused:
 
Prodigal_Son said:
2) What evidence do you have that they were making love?

I think it’s pretty clear that Songs describes a very “intimate” relationship.
 
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Benedictus:
I think it’s pretty clear that Songs describes a very “intimate” relationship.
You’re probably right.

But my relationship with my fiancee was very intimate, and very sexually charged, before we married – but it was not sexual. The Song of Songs relationship is certainly erotic, but “consummated” is a different thing.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
1) What evidence do you have that they were not, at some point in the book at least, married?

Song of Songs 1: 16-17

“16
Ah, you are beautiful, my lover-
yes, you are lovely.
Our couch, too, is verdant;
17
the beams of our house are cedars,
our rafters, cypresses.”

They meet out on the fields rather than their home like a married couple would.

Song of Songs 3:1-4

“1
On my bed at night I sought him
whom my heart loves-
I sought him but I did not find him.
2
I will rise then and go about the city;
in the streets and crossings I will seek
Him whom my heart loves.
I sought him but I did not find him.
3
The watchmen came upon me
as they made their rounds of the city:
Have you seen him whom my heart loves?
4
I had hardly left them
when I found him whom my heart loves.
I took hold of him and would not let him go
till I should bring him to the home of my mother,
to the room of my parent.”

She couldn’t find him in her bed, so she goes looking for him to take him back to her parents’ room. Explain why would a married couple act in this manner? Wouldn’t they have a home of their own to go back to?

Song of Songs 8:1-2

“1
Oh, that you were my brother,
nursed at my mother’s breasts!
If I met you out of doors, I would kiss you
and none would taunt me.
2
I would lead you, bring you in
to the home of my mother.
There you would teach me to give you
spiced wine to drink and pomegranate juice.”

The girl wishes her beloved were her brother so that she could freely show affection to him. Why the secret places? Why the secrecy?

And here’s the answer why?

Song of Songs 8: 8-9

“8
“Our sister is little
and she has no breasts as yet.
What shall we do for our sister
when her courtship begins?
9
If she is a wall,
we will build upon it a silver parapet;
If she is a door,
we will reinforce it with a cedar plank.””

Her brothers talk about whether she remained chasted or not. The brothers, who are responsible for marrying off their sister, wouldn’t bother talking about it if she was married.
  1. What evidence do you have that they were making love?
Song of Songs 1:13

“13
My lover is for me a sachet of myrrh
to rest in my bosom.”

Song of Songs 1:16
" 16
Ah, you are beautiful, my lover-
yes, you are lovely.
Our couch, too, is verdant;"

Song of Songs 5:3-6

" 3
I have taken off my robe,
am I then to put it on?
I have bathed my feet,
am I then to soil them?
4
My lover put his hand through the opening;
my heart trembled within me
**,
and I grew faint when he spoke.
5
I rose to open to my lover,
with my hands dripping myrrh:
With my fingers dripping choice myrrh
upon the fittings of the lock.

6
I opened to my lover-
but my lover had departed, gone.
I sought him but I did not find him;
I called to him but he did not answer me."

Song of Songs 7: 8-9

" 8
Your very figure is like a palm tree,
your breasts are like clusters.
9
I said: I will climb the palm tree,
I will take hold of its branches.
Now let your breasts be like clusters of the vine

and the fragrance of your breath like apples,"

I think this speaks volumes
Your assumptions confuse me. :confused:
Did you actually read Song of Songs?**
 
If Paul was talking about fornication from an Old Testament perspective you could say that pre-marital sex is not included in this. Modern day Jews also intepret fornication as something not encompassing pre-marital sex. After all, there were all sorts of concubines and multiple wives being had in the Old Testament including Solomon (supposedly the wisest man) and other kings. Its sort of odd that no one raised their voice against most of the characters in the old testament when they had sex outside of marriage. Obviously from a Catholic perspective we understand that pre-marital sex is not part of God’s plan for us but it is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible.
 
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CrossoverManiac:
Did you actually read Song of Songs?
Excuse me for being offended at that comment. I did not, however, for the sake of a simple discussion, dissect the book. You did. Good for you.

From the Catholic encyclopedia:
One part of the composition (iii, 6 to v, 1) is clearly a description of the wedding-day. Here the two chief personages approach each other in stately processlon, and the day is expressly called the wedding-day. Moreover the bridal wreath and the bridal bed are referred to, and six times in this section of the song, although never before or after, the word spouse is used. All that has preceded is now seen to be preparatory to the marriage…
newadvent.org/cathen/03302a.htm

I would remind you that the culture out of which the book originated is *monumentally * different from our own. I respect your opinion, but it is just that: an opinion.

And, if they were married, as the encyclopedia hypothesizes, then the poetry about their sexual relationship becomes all the more (excuse the pun) fruitful.
 
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CrossoverManiac:
…They meet out on the fields rather than their home like a married couple would…
Ahem. Some married couples sometimes do meet out in the fields. Or in the woods. Or out on a sailboat. or on a secluded beach. Anywhere where it is safe and private. That’s what vacations are for.
 
JB.:
Ahem. Some married couples sometimes do meet out in the fields. Or in the woods. Or out on a sailboat. or on a secluded beach. Anywhere where it is safe and private. That’s what vacations are for.
You’re giving me ideas, JB. My wife and I thank you. 😉
 
the thing that bums me out about it was that in the OT if you had premarital sex with an unbetrothed virgin, you just had to pay her family, promise to get married whatever. But in the NT you burn in hell. definitely a bummer.
 
Hey, in the Old Testament, you could rape a virgin and all you had to do was pay a bit of silver and marry her.
 
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Benedictus:
Hey, in the Old Testament, you could rape a virgin and all you had to do was pay a bit of silver and marry her.
this has been discussed and debunked here.
 
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Benedictus:
Discussed, yes. Debunked, no. The Bible says what it says.
Your translation of the Bible says what it says. The original ancient Hebrew actually says what was meant. We get into tons of trouble if we attempt to use English translations to divine the intent of the original writers of the Bible. If you refuse to dig any deeper to research this issue, then you are merely using the text that confirms your prejudice as a weapon to attack the Church.
 
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Prodigal_Son:
Excuse me for being offended at that comment.
Well, you sorta ticked me off by saying those were my ‘assumptions’. It was petty of me to get mad at a statement that wasn’t even intended as an insult. So, I apologize.
I did not, however, for the sake of a simple discussion, dissect the book. You did. Good for you.
I hope more people dissect the book.
From the Catholic encyclopedia:
newadvent.org/cathen/03302a.htm
I’ll read it if I get the time, but, to be honost, I’m afraid the article will be bias. And Song have had a history of people downplaying its erotic meaning and content.
I would remind you that the culture out of which the book originated is *monumentally * different from our own.
Are you saying that God gives a free pass on premarital sex depending on the culture? If so, then your argument amounts to shooting yourself in the foot. In this culture, premarital sex is commonplace.
I respect your opinion, but it is just that: an opinion.
One backed up by facts.
And, if they were married, as the encyclopedia hypothesizes, then the poetry about their sexual relationship becomes all the more (excuse the pun) fruitful.
It’s a very bad hypothesis. The girl’s brothers was talking about whether or not she kept her virginity. Virginity is not an issue post-marriage.
 
Whatever happened to The Catechism of the Catholic Church and Scared Traditions?!?!?!?! :mad:

Just because someone in the Bible had premarital sex (fornication) doesn’t mean it was right.

If you want to interpret the Scriptures literally and put your own spin on God’s teaching, then join a Protestant church.
 
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