Biker Sues Waco, McLennan County, Alleges Unconstitutional Arrest, Detention

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pnewton said:
I mam sure they were just there for the food, and Parish Council will be meeting at Hooter’s.

If a local group of Crips started a riot in a bar over territory, I would not be sympathetic with a group of altar boys meeting there for a “dress like a banger” party.
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The Bible tells us that we will be judged by the standard we judge others.
 
Path_Finder said:
It is on-topic, are you saying it is an off-topic post?

Goes to character, yes, it does.
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Okay. Well I do not agree the doing a good public work is an indication of good character. We have too many examples of evil people doing good things, from pedophiles to despots.
Path_Finder said:
Read original post. It is a true dichotomy.
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Police agencies can and do operate more than one department, working on more than one kind of crime and more than one perpetrator at a time. If someone broke into their home, I am sure no one would accept being blown off because bigger criminals need to be caught first. You can think otherwise and believe that this is not a false dichotomy.
Path_Finder said:
Only other law agencies do what the police do. False comparison.
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If your read the Freedom of Information Act you will find that on-going investigation, is one of the allowed exemptions. Another is attorney-client communications. Local governments, which operate under the Open Meetings Act here are still allowed to close their doors when discussion civil lawsuits, including law enforcement.
Path_Finder said:
The Bible tells us that we will be judged by the standard we judge others.
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Absolutely. I do not think anyone doubts this.
 
pnewton said:
Remember that God judges us by the standard we judge others. Would you like to be thought of as a loser by rude internet posters?
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These men are drug dealers, pimps, extortionist, murders, they whore out their wives and daughters. You can go search for that criminal gangs and find the news stories just the way I did.

No, God doesnt judge us by the standard we judge others. If that we true then anyone who sits on a jury and finds someone guilty is in trouble. He judges us all the same by the same rules.

I have read 200+ news articles on these two main criminal gangs and they are full of evil men and women that if they dont turn their lives around are going to end up in hell. There are small towns in Texas they gang terrorize and nothing is being done to stop them. They shake down businesses, steal peoples lands and building, They are evil and they are losers.

Wait till the trial, lots of people will be shocked at what these gangs do
 
philipl said:
These men are drug dealers, pimps, extortionist, murders, they whore out their wives and daughters. You can go search for that criminal gangs and find the news stories just the way I did.
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I know what criminal gangs do, collectively. These people however were not arrested for any warrant stemming from this type of gang activity. Since you state with such certainty what these men have done, can you give names and what specific crimes they have committed.

No, God doesnt judge us by the standard we judge others.

Jesus said otherwise:

“Stop judging,** that you may not be judged. 2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.’**
 
I know what criminal gangs do, collectively. These people however were not arrested for any warrant stemming from this type of gang activity. Since you state with such certainty what these men have done, can you give names and what specific crimes they have committed.

Once they go to trial we will get all the info.

No, God doesnt judge us by the standard we judge others.

Jesus said otherwise:
pnewton said:
“Stop judging,** that you may not be judged. 2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.’**

I am going to use this quote next time I am called to jury duty. Tell the judge I am not allowed to serve on a jury because God will judge me accordingly.
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"Once they go to trial we will get all the info. "

That is assuming that all of them will go to trial and the police/DA will have to provide actual evidence against each individual (vice them simply being present at the incident).

In reality, many will probably plead out given the cost/time risk vs copping a plea which will be completely expunged if they stay out of trouble for a year. Many others will probably simply have charges dismissed with no recourse for lost time/wages/damages from confinement.

Out of this mess, maybe one or two will go to trial.
 
philipl said:
I am going to use this quote next time I am called to jury duty. Tell the judge I am not allowed to serve on a jury because God will judge me accordingly.
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If you think it necessary. All we are required to do is judge according to how we wish to be judged, that is, avoid hypocrisy.
 
pnewton said:
Wel,l one anti-police blogger thinks so.
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The issues in the article are really more directed towards the DA handling of the case. You can certainly understand the police arresting anyone they had even mild suspicion of at the scene to sort out at booking/jail. Really doubt the police would be aware of the distinction between all the different group names- outlaws, veterans, Christian groups, charity based riders, etc. etc. Why folks were held so long on non-specific charges was a decision by the DA- who may have been overwhelmed in a small jurisdiction.

There may be a simple answer to why there was such a large police presence at this particular meeting given there’d never been any issues before. An informant in one of the outlaw groups indicating there was a potential for violence.

It will be interesting if/when everything comes out.
 
styrgwillidar said:
There may be a simple answer to why there was such a large police presence at this particular meeting given there’d never been any issues before. An informant in one of the outlaw groups indicating there was a potential for violence.

It will be interesting if/when everything comes out.
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I thought it had already been verified that there was a known war brewing between two of the biker groups were going to be present that at that event. Which, would be hard to argue is not probable cause for a police presence.
 
InigoMontoya said:
I thought it had already been verified that there was a known war brewing between two of the biker groups were going to be present that at that event. Which, would be hard to argue is not probable cause for a police presence.
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Problem being that there was a regular meeting of the Texas CCO&I, a group organized to advocated for motorcycle safety and legislative issues. The group is organized by region and has been having regular meetings for at least 20 years with no history of violence or incidents. The two outlaw groups weren’t members and, according to the organizers, weren’t invited or expected to be part of the meeting.

If there was a war brewing there doesn’t seem to be anything, at least from what’s been released so far, to link it to the TX CCO&I meeting. Which again, happen regularly without any increased police presence.
 
Imagine if a person of a particular race was savagely beaten by members of another race, and some people who were nearby ended up in jail for no other apparent reasons than that they were of the same race as the attackers and in the area at the time. OR imagine members of a particular religion being arrested for having ties to a terrorist organization, leading to additional arrests of people of that religion because they happened to be nearby at the time. I tend to think the public would be a whole lot angrier than they would be over the arrests of people with no police records or ties to violent organizations.
 
If videos — other than squad car or business surveillance footage — captured the events in Waco, they may exist on the bikers’ cellphones, which were confiscated along with weapons, vests and motorcycles.
Waco police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said officers will not release any evidence they feel could taint a potential jury pool or otherwise hinder the investigation and that investigators feel the need to be absolutely certain of each new finding before releasing more information.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/answers-and-evidence-in-twin-peaks-shootout-delayed-by-case/article_89437609-7790-59b6-abac-a35f21921a7c.html
 
wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/vehicle-forfeiture-documents-reveal-new-details-about-deadly-biker-shootout/article_0491c81d-7009-52f1-9120-d9cb08b1609e.html

Interesting article which covers several confrontations since November 2013 between the two groups. Also interesting bit:

"The incident erupted in Waco, according to the documents, after the meeting of the Region 1 Confederation of Clubs and Independents was moved from Austin to the Twin Peaks in Waco. Nearly all of the recent Region 1 COC&I meetings had been held in Austin, and it is not common for members of any of the other 11 COC&I regions in Texas to attend a regional meeting of another area of the Texas COC&I, the affidavits say. Many of the 177 bikers arrested in the Twin Peaks shootout were from outside Region 1.

The Cossacks are not members of the local COC&I and the Bandidos are. However, the Cossacks consider Waco “their territory and made the decision to take a stand and attend the meeting uninvited,” according to the court documents.

“Cossacks threatened that Waco was a ‘Cossacks town’ and nobody else could ride there,” the records state. “The large number of Bandidos and their supporters showed up to the Region 1 COC&I meeting because the Bandidos wanted to have a show of force and make a statement that Waco was not the Cossacks’ town.” "

So, it looks like this wasn’t a pre-arranged meeting of the groups as initially reported. The majority of folks there to attend the Region 1 meeting wouldn’t have expected the non-member Cossacks to be there with the potential for a confrontation (folks like the veteran’s riding group, the Christian riding group etc.)

It also indicates how many innocent folks could have been swept up since they would have been arriving for a 1PM meeting, while many of the Cossacks arrived much earlier.

However, if the police had any informants associated with the group, they would have been aware of the potential for a confrontation, and violence, and explains why they were present in fairly large numbers despite many previous biker gatherings there never having had any violence.

Also, the you can see many, if not all, of the folks who had vehicles confiscated had criminal records . ETA: Note, many of the descriptions refer to actions caught on video during the shooting.

It will be very interesting once all the information is released— if ever.
 
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