Billboards proclaiming ‘Jesus is Muslim’ getting people upset

[oldcatholicguy]

And that is what God teaches us in the Quran, everything submits willingly to God except man. ** So Islam is an invitation to man to submit to God.**

God says, **“Do you not see that God is He, Whom obeys whoever is in the heavens and whoever is in the earth, and the sun and the moon and the stars, and the mountains and the trees, and the animals and many of the people; and many there are against whom chastisement has become necessary; and whomsoever God abases, there is none who can make him honorable; surely God does what He pleases.” ** (24:41)

Islam is about God, for God, with God, to God. God is the central theme of Islam.

God also says, “I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship.” (Quran 51:56)

Our purpose is to be in continuous worship of God. Worship how?

Prophet Muhammad said, **“Worship God as though you see Him, (because you see Him), and if not that He see you.” **(Al Bukari)

Prophet Muhammad also said, "Be mindful of God and God will be mindful of you. Be mindful of God and you will find Him in front of you. Know God in times of ease and He will know you in times of hardship. When you ask, ask God, when you seek help, seek help from God. The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried. Know that if the entire world (all created things) gathered together to benefit you with something, they would only benefit you with something that God had already written for you. If they gathered together to harm you with something, they would only harm you with something that God had already written against you. Know that great good lies in bearing with patience what you dislike, that victory comes with patience, that relief comes with distress, and that with hardship comes ease." (Musnad Ahmad-Sahih)

Islam is about God, submission to Him and Him alone.

And God knows best.

Your above really doesn’t address the point that Muslim= anyone who submits to God makes the term Muslim so generalized and shallow as to be meaningless.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

While Muslims believe all prophets (Jesus, Muhammad, Abraham etc) were Muslims, we do not necessarily class their followers as such, because they have deviated from the original message of their prophets.

From a Muslim perspective, Christians have deviated from the Message of Christ, by equating Jesus to God. Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” [John 14:28] but Christians made Jesus equal to God. Both the Father and Jesus are 100% God, equal. Jesus never taught this, thus did not submit to his teachings. Thus from a Muslim perspective, Christians aren’t worthy of the title, Muslim, and are called People of the Book.

Sure Jesus said, **“I and my Father are one.” ** but in the context, that we are Gods too, when Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are Gods.”

This word Gods, is Elohim. And Moses too was called Elohim (God), Exodus 7:1. Elohim (God) created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1. There is a context for everything.

And God knows best.

So you would agree that the definition of Muslim as just someone who submits to God is incorrect.

 

[Thorns]

While Muslims believe all prophets (Jesus, Muhammad, Abraham etc) were Muslims, we do not necessarily class their followers as such, because they have deviated from the original message of their prophets.

From a Muslim perspective, Christians have deviated from the Message of Christ, by equating Jesus to God. Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” [John 14:28] but Christians made Jesus equal to God. Both the Father and Jesus are 100% God, equal. Jesus never taught this, thus did not submit to his teachings. Thus from a Muslim perspective, Christians aren’t worthy of the title, Muslim, and are called People of the Book.

Sure Jesus said, **“I and my Father are one.” ** but in the context, that we are Gods too, when Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are Gods.”

This word Gods, is Elohim. And Moses too was called Elohim (God), Exodus 7:1. Elohim (God) created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1. There is a context for everything.

And God knows best.

Jesus forgave sins, only God could do so.

Jesus said He was the Truth, the Way, the Life.

Jesus said whoever believed in Him would have eternal life.

Jesus said Heaven (referring to Himself) was suddenly upon them.

Jesus, after reading the prophetic Scripture in the temple, declared that on thar day the Scripture had been fulfilled (referring to Himself).

Yes context is everything and its abundantly clear thar Jesus claimed to be God, to say otherwise would be inaccurate.

 

[TheSufi]

Your above really doesn’t address the point that Muslim= anyone who submits to God makes the term Muslim so generalized and shallow as to be meaningless.

That is fine. Islam is meaningless to you as Christianity is meaningless to me.

What I wrote, was completely meaningful to me, how do I convey that meaningfulness to you, I do not know.

Our religions means something to us because we live it, it is a means by which we experience God directly. Knowledge is not written words or speech, knowledge is a light that God places in the heart of the believer.

And God knows best.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

That is fine. Islam is meaningless is you as Christianity is completely meaningless to me.

What I wrote, was completely meaningful to me, how do I convey that meaningfulness to you, I do not know.

Our religions means something to us because we live it, it is a means by which we experience God directly. Knowledge is not written words or speech, but a light that God places in the heart of the believer.

I fail to see how you concluded I was making any sort of statement in regards to Islam from my comment. My comment concerned the erroneous definition of the term Muslim. Let’s go with the assumption that Muslim truly means anyone who submits to God. This would include me, a devout Catholic, Christians in general and Jews in general. None of us would have any problems flying to and visiting Mecca (a city off limits to non-Muslims) right?

 

[TheSufi]

I fail to see how you concluded I was making any sort of statement in regards to Islam from my comment. My comment concerned the erroneous definition of the term Muslim. Let’s go with the assumption that Muslim truly means anyone who submits to God. This would include me, a devout Catholic, Christians in general and Jews in general. None of us would have any problems flying to and visiting Mecca (a city off limits to non-Muslims) right?

We exclude you and the Jew because you do not consider Prophet Muhammad to be a Messenger from God. To submit to God would mean you have to acknowledge all his Messengers. Which is why Jews and Christians after Prophet Muhammad coming are called People of the Book and not Muslims.

Man is the only creature that has a choice to submit or rebel. While all of nature and the created Universe has no choice, they have no free will.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

We exclude you and the Jew because you do not consider Prophet Muhammad to be a Messenger from God. To submit to God would mean you have to acknowledge all his Messengers. Which is why Jews and Christians after Prophet Muhammad coming are called People of the Book and not Muslims.

Man is the only creature that has a choice to submit or rebel. While all of nature and the created Universe has no choice, they have no free will.

So in other words, not everyone who submits to God is a Muslim. Only those who agree with Islamic teachings are Muslim. Ergo, “someone who submits to God” isn’t the definition of the term Muslim. “Someone who practices the Islamic faith” is the definition of Muslim.

 

[TheSufi]

So in other words, not everyone who submits to God is a Muslim. Only those who agree with Islamic teachings are Muslim. Ergo, “someone who submits to God” isn’t the definition of the term Muslim. “Someone who practices the Islamic faith” is the definition of Muslim.

Jews and Christians do not submit to God entirely. Muslim means those who submit to God entirely, who acknowledge all God’s Messengers.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Jews and Christians do not submit to God entirely. Muslim means those who submit to God entirely, who acknowledge all God’s Messengers.

I think we are talking past each other.

The wrong definition of Muslim- Anyone who submits to God via the Jewish, Christian, or Islamic faiths. Jews and Christians are Muslim too even though they don’t acknowledge Muhammad or the teachings of the Quran.

The correct definition of Muslim- Anyone who submits to God via the Islamic faith (acknowledges Muhammad and the teachings of the Quran).

 

[Publisher]

Surely is specious to suggest Jesus was a Muslim while maintaining he was actually something else from what the word means history. If we are going to be loose with the word Muslim, one who submits to god, sure he was a Muslim, but then again it becomes meaningless as everyone who is not an atheist or agnostic is then a Muslim.

Muslim, beyond the strict meaning has a historical connotation to it, involving the beliefs of certain doctrines, belief in certain prophets, belief in certain morals, belief in a Unitarian God and etc. We could add to the discussion that in order to be a Muslim one must believe Jesus did not die on the cross but rather another took his place. Did Jesus believe in those things? Did he believe in a Unitarian God whom he was wholly submitted and could not equal? Or did he believe himself to be God brought into the world for the sake of the world? That his mere presence was enough to prohibit fasting?

Your being silly when you insist on calling Jesus a Muslim because it looses all meaning once you get the Christian to concede your use of the word Muslim which means something totally different to the Muslims who say Jesus was a Muslim.

Unless Quakers believe in Islam, in which case your simply wrong.

Outside the personall attack of being called “silly”, Jesus was not “Muslim”, but he was “muslim”…not necessarily what I believe, but what Muslims believe, Jesus was in “submission to the will of God”, which is what “muslim” means and meant originally.

 

[TheSufi]

I think we are talking past each other.

The wrong definition of Muslim- Anyone who submits to God via the Jewish, Christian, or Islamic faiths. Jews and Christians are Muslim too even though they don’t acknowledge Muhammad or the teachings of the Quran.

The correct definition of Muslim- Anyone who submits to God via the Islamic faith (acknowledges Muhammad and the teachings of the Quran).

I provided you the Quranic definition of Muslim, which is a little more comprehensive.

 

[MartinJordan]

From a Muslim perspective, Christians have deviated from the Message of Christ, by equating Jesus to God. Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” [John 14:28] but Christians made Jesus equal to God. Both the Father and Jesus are 100% God, equal. Jesus never taught this, thus did not submit to his teachings. Thus from a Muslim perspective, Christians aren’t worthy of the title, Muslim, and are called People of the Book.

Sure Jesus said, **“I and my Father are one.” ** but in the context, that we are Gods too, when Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are Gods.”

This word Gods, is Elohim. And Moses too was called Elohim (God), Exodus 7:1. Elohim (God) created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1. There is a context for everything.

And God knows best.

Kindly stop using the New Testament to tell us what Jesus meant. Christians deviated indeed. You also are taking things out of context by falsely making accusations with the NT where it is clear Jesus equates himself with God.

God is not the Father in Islam is he? So why bother with the NT?

MJ

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Outside the personall attack of being called “silly”, Jesus was not “Muslim”, but he was “muslim”…not necessarily what I believe, but what Muslims believe, Jesus was in “submission to the will of God”, which is what “muslim” means and meant originally.

Again you have to miss the point. If Jesus was a Muslim, then I am a Muslim, you are a Muslim and every theist is a Muslim. The Muslims should have a poster saying “everyone is a Muslim, except atheists and agnostics,” if you want to argue in such a fashion. I also do consider your argument extremely silly and extremely flawed in that you insist on the literal meaning of the word thereby making it meaningless to call Jesus a Muslim. When Muslims say Jesus believed in Islam, they mean something else entire, that Jesus was a believer of Islam, who will return one day, kill all the pigs, destroy the crosses and establish the caliphate. That he did not believe himself to be God and he did not die on the cross. This is some of the things they mean when they think of Jesus as one of them.

 

[Ontheway]

That is fine. Islam is meaningless to you as Christianity is meaningless to me.

What I wrote, was completely meaningful to me, how do I convey that meaningfulness to you, I do not know.

Our religions means something to us because we live it, it is a means by which we experience God directly. Knowledge is not written words or speech, knowledge is a light that God places in the heart of the believer.

And God knows best.

But how can you say that Christianity is meaningless to you when your prophet tells you to respect the 'Bible. If you are a muslim you should be reading the Bible. It seems to be your obligation.

 

[Ontheway]

Again you have to miss the point. If Jesus was a Muslim, then I am a Muslim, you are a Muslim and every theist is a Muslim. The Muslims should have a poster saying “everyone is a Muslim, except atheists and agnostics,” if you want to argue in such a fashion. I also do consider your argument extremely silly and extremely flawed in that you insist on the literal meaning of the word thereby making it meaningless to call Jesus a Muslim. When Muslims say Jesus believed in Islam, they mean something else entire, that Jesus was a believer of Islam, who will return one day, kill all the pigs, destroy the crosses and establish the caliphate. That he did not believe himself to be God and he did not die on the cross. This is some of the things they mean when they think of Jesus as one of them.

In this respect Islam is highly dialectical. In their opinion you and I are Muslims; we just haven’t achieved the level of awareness that is necesary to realize it. I think Latter Day Saints have the same philosophy. BTW. Both religions allow us to have multiple wives.

 

[MartinJordan]

But how can you say that Christianity is meaningless to you when your prophet tells you to respect the 'Bible. If you are a muslim you should be reading the Bible. It seems to be your obligation.

The trouble with this Ontheway is that Islam teaches that Jesus was given the Bible (which is called the “Injil” (a word coming from Greek).

So that’s why they have to read it. However the writings of this “injil” is not the Bible that Christians are reading apparently. That’s why I question Sufi why bother reading our NT.

MJ

 

[TheSufi]

In this respect Islam is highly dialectical. In their opinion you and I are Muslims; we just haven’t achieved the level of awareness that is necesary to realize it. I think Latter Day Saints have the same philosophy. BTW. Both religions allow us to have multiple wives.

In our opinion, you as a modern day Christian, you are not a Muslim, although Jesus is Muslim.

 

[Ontheway]

In our opinion, you as a modern day Christian, you are not a Muslim, although Jesus is Muslim.

Jesus can not be a Muslim, a follower, servant or slave of God, because that is not His mission.
Jesus is of the same essence.
Jesus is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.
Jesus is the redeemer of humanity and He brings salvation to the world, including the followers of Mohammad.
He is the redeemer of man through His sacrifice.
He loves you specifically and has brought you here to this forum for a reason.


Lent is a special season of prayer. Pray and believe. Jesus loves you.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

In this respect Islam is highly dialectical. In their opinion you and I are Muslims; we just haven’t achieved the level of awareness that is necesary to realize it. I think Latter Day Saints have the same philosophy. BTW. Both religions allow us to have multiple wives.

See we’re not Muslims though. Crucial to Islam is the belief in the prophets and we reject Muhammad. I really think you are stretching here in order to make a point… I’m not sure as to the meaning of that point however. Lets do it with another word. Muslims are Christians. Why are they Christians because Christian means someone who believes in the Christ Jesus, therefore they are technically Christians.

So what do we accomplish here other than using words in a confusing way which means little in the end? Do you really think the Muslims who made the Billboard in the first place are arguing in your fashion?

 

[Ontheway]

See we’re not Muslims though. Crucial to Islam is the belief in the prophets and we reject Muhammad. I really think you are stretching here in order to make a point… I’m not sure as to the meaning of that point however. Lets do it with another word. Muslims are Christians. Why are they Christians because Christian means someone who believes in the Christ Jesus, therefore they are technically Christians.

So what do we accomplish here other than using words in a confusing way which means little in the end? Do you really think the Muslims who made the Billboard in the first place are arguing in your fashion?

There seem to be two concepts of Muslim at play here. One is the follower of the prophet, is a modern day Muslim, who reads the Koran and prays five times a day, etc.
The other is the one who submits to God. This is the concept that allows the Muslims to claim Jesus as a Muslim. In this context we are all Muslims, slaves or servants of God.
The billboard makers are using the word “muslim” in this second sense.