Bring back the paddle in schools?

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St_John

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I think things have gone downhill since they got rid of the paddle in schools. There’s more violence in society, kids are running amock. They didn’t have school shootings back when they had corporal punishment in the schools. They didn’t have a bunch of namby, pamby social workers catering to out of control kids.

People say that hitting kids causes violence, but I don’t think that’s true. Why is there more violence these days than back in the day when they sent kids to the pricipals and the kid got the paddle? Kids are pretty basic and they need to be taught to fear their elders. I don’t see anything wrong with it. The parents need to toughen up too and quit pampering their brats. Things have gone downhill since they got rid of the paddle.
 
There is spanking, and then there is hitting.

Two quite different things.

I spanked my kids when they were younger. But God so help anyone else who would have DARED laid a finger of spanking on MY child. (school and teachers included). By the way, I AM a teacher. Anyone who dared physically touch my child would have been begging for their own lives at that point.

No, spanking does NOT belong in schools.

I stopped spanking once mine reached about 5 or 6 anyway.

Violence is from media, society, lack of fathers, and anger of being bullied.

I personally know several of my colleagues who I am SURE would abuse the “paddle” and would be quite guilty of abuse.
 
St_John said:
I think things have gone downhill since they got rid of the paddle in schools. There’s more violence in society, kids are running amock. They didn’t have school shootings back when they had corporal punishment in the schools. They didn’t have a bunch of namby, pamby social workers catering to out of control kids.

People say that hitting kids causes violence, but I don’t think that’s true. Why is there more violence these days than back in the day when they sent kids to the pricipals and the kid got the paddle? Kids are pretty basic and they need to be taught to fear their elders. I don’t see anything wrong with it. The parents need to toughen up too and quit pampering their brats. Things have gone downhill since they got rid of the paddle.
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I disagree that children need to fear their elders. Fear is not the same thing as respect. Respect needs to be earned and modeled and it is the adults (parents in most cases) who have let these young people down. I wonder if you have any idea what kind of homes these kids come from. Those namby, pamby social workers (and I resent that characterization) are trying to give that kid a chance at a normal productive life even though the kid has never encountered anything normal or healthy at home.

I have a number of other points but will leave you with this: Public schools won’t be bringing back the paddle anytime soon and lack of the paddle is not the reason for the chaos in schools.
 
I didn’t think people would agree with me. But I stick to my belief that corporol punishment in the schools helped maintain order. I’m not suggesting that just any teacher be allowed to beat children, but that the principal have the paddle in his arsenal for serious offenders. No, I don’t think the schools will bring it back, but I think they should.

It used to be that parents backed up the school.The whole community agreed that kids were to mind adults and be respectful. But the 60’s changed all that. All of a sudden you had child psychologists running the show. I remember my mother’s friend growing up. She was a liberal child psychologist and her kids were the most screwed up spoiled brats there were! She was so busy telling other people how to raise kids that she would import Mexican housekeepers to raise her kids. I’ve seen other examples too.

I don’t advocate beating kids, but I see nothing wrong with the paddle in school to help control the worst offenders and instill some fear of authority in them. It worked for mankind for thousands of years, and there certainly hasn’t been any improvement in our society since we went soft on kids.
 
it is much more challenging to get kids to respect you without hitting…as a teacher i was up for that challenge and my classes were always the thightest ships in the school
 
St_John said:
I didn’t think people would agree with me. But I stick to my belief that corporol punishment in the schools helped maintain order. I’m not suggesting that just any teacher be allowed to beat children, but that the principal have the paddle in his arsenal for serious offenders. No, I don’t think the schools will bring it back, but I think they should.

** It used to be that parents backed up the school.The whole community agreed that kids were to mind adults and be respectful.** But the 60’s changed all that. All of a sudden you had child psychologists running the show. I remember my mother’s friend growing up. She was a liberal child psychologist and her kids were the most screwed up spoiled brats there were! She was so busy telling other people how to raise kids that she would import Mexican housekeepers to raise her kids. I’ve seen other examples too.

I don’t advocate beating kids, but I see nothing wrong with the paddle in school to help control the worst offenders and instill some fear of authority in them. It worked for mankind for thousands of years, and there certainly hasn’t been any improvement in our society since we went soft on kids.
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I agree with the bold. And I sort of agree with the rest of that paragraph (a little to much hyperbole in it to be acurate). And you know what? Sometimes those housekeepers or nannies do a pretty good job, maybe better than some parents.

I realise that you aren’t for abusing kids but that is what it would lead to. And the paddle, all by itself, is not the problem or the answer to it. The changes in society are responcible. Re-introduding the paddle in and of itself woudn’t do a thing. I could see a student who was paddled blowing away the principal who paddled him. School faculty and staff would more likely target students who had little recourse, just so they could vent their anger because they fell helpless when it comes to other kids.
 
Rates of violent crime have also risen since the advent of indoor plumbing. Just an FYI.

(Correlation does not prove causality.)

A truly good teacher can maintain authority and respect without instilling fear. Fear and corporal punishment are indeed effective at extinguishing some types of undesireable behavior, but that doesn’t make these tactics any less lazy and violent. It always strikes me as interesting that advocates of corporal punishment (“I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine!”) are almost always rather forceful and hostile in their tone when defending such practices. Coincidence?

No, not all paddled children grow up to be violent. But almost without exception, perpetrators of violent crimes were spanked or hit as children. I remember reading that statistic back when I was researching domestic violence. Like I said, correlation doesn’t prove causality, but can we afford to ignore the possibility that dysfunctional family behavior is communicated to the next generation through violent discipline? Those who commit such acts run the risk of teaching children that it is okay to gain respect by force. (By violent discipline I don’t mean a tiny spank.) Studies show a very strong link between experiencing childhood violence at the hand of a caregiver and being an abusive adult toward one’s own spouse and children.
 
St_John said:
I think things have gone downhill since they got rid of the paddle in schools. There’s more violence in society, kids are running amock. They didn’t have school shootings back when they had corporal punishment in the schools. They didn’t have a bunch of namby, pamby social workers catering to out of control kids.

People say that hitting kids causes violence, but I don’t think that’s true. Why is there more violence these days than back in the day when they sent kids to the pricipals and the kid got the paddle? Kids are pretty basic and they need to be taught to fear their elders. I don’t see anything wrong with it. The parents need to toughen up too and quit pampering their brats. Things have gone downhill since they got rid of the paddle.
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No, things have gone wrong since parents allow their children regularly play grossly violent video games, watch cartoons like Southpark as family, allow their children unmonitored access to the internet and don’t teach their children personal accountabilty or respect for authority. Times have definately changed. Parents personal freedom and career ambitions are more important than being home to raise and supervise their children.

A swat on the behind is not going to fix that.
 
I would disagree with you. I have started working in a continuation school where I work with all of the gang bangers, juvenile delinquents, and other kids who were kicked out of public schools. Most of them have parents who think nothing of being tough with their “brats.” I will tell you what though, our class is the best behaved in the whole school and that is accomplished by treating the kids with courtesy, kindness, respect, consistency, and a little bit of humor. Sure, when the new kids come in with an attitude, they are told the rules and the consequences which are logical and non-violent. When they test those rules, they immediately see that their behavior is not tolerated and they do face the promised consequences. They also see that we are quick to forgive and give them a chance to get with the program. They are grateful for that. Some kids say that they would rather be at school than at home, and even the apparently worst of the worst can be hard-working and sincere. No paddles needed.
 
I remember as a kid, when someone said they were going to “tell their mom”, you took off like a shot. Maybe we were afraid, maybe it was something else. But today, as parents, we have tried to be friends instead. Our kids don’t need friends. They need routine, stability and love. When I hear what comes out of the mouths of some kids, my hair curls. When I hear the way kids talk to each other, the same phenomenon happens.We have given in to our kids far too often, in the hopes that our children will “like” us and think we are “cool” As a kid (1 of 7) I had to work for whatever I wanted if it was “extra”. And because I was 1 of 7, and I wanted to attend Catholic HS, I got a job at 13 and paid my own tuition. Now a days we give cell phones and cars and i-pods to a generation of mostly ungrateful kids.
My parents didn’t beat us. All my mother had to say was “wait 'til I tell your father” and kids scattered everywhere. And all my dad had to do was unbuckle his belt and we listened. Now a days kids laugh at you (or swear as I have evidenced) I am not sure what the answer is to the problems with kids today, but I am inclined to think we need to work on bringing back respect. Whether or not a paddle is part of that solution, I don’t know.
Kathy
 
My parents weren’t and aren’t the best buddy type - but believe you me they never laid a finger on me physically either. In spite of which they managed to gain the respect of their children and get us to obey them 99% of the time.

They could always manage to scare both the @#$$ and the bs out of us with tone of voice and body language alone. It’s called real authority.
 
I think some of it has to do with greatfulness and hard work. My own dad complains about my younger siblings not appreciating all they have when he himself had little growing up. That’s the problem, how can a child appreciate something he’s had his/her whole life. When they’re given everything from birth, then well, they don’t know the value of what they have since they’ve never been without them. I just always find it funny when my dad complains not realizing that he caused the problem he’s complaining about. My older brother is the same way (about himself most of the time). Only by God’s grace am I appreciative, and what may have helped me is that I was young when my parents divorced and my mom was out of a job and I didn’t get everything (but a good quality Catholic education. Also, being adopted probably helped too, knowing that God saved me twice (a pretty special feeling growing up and yet a very unworthy feeling at the same time).

I have seen too many parents give things to make up for their lack of time with their children. They’re sadly missing the picture that while their children may want things, in their hearts they want their parents time.
 
My stance is simple. It has nothing to do with whether spanking is right or wrong. It has to do with the purpose of schools. (Those familiar with me here know exactly where this is going!😉 )
The purpose of schools is to impart information in the fields of maths, reading, writing, history, and sciences.
Schools are not qualified to be parental authorities or to discipline as parents on any level. For this reason, they will never be successfull in efforts to do such things that over-step their purpose.
That aside, there is the practical side that no right-thinking 15 yr boy is going to just take a paddling from anyone, nor should they be expected to do so.
When one speaks of children fearing their elders, it should be made clear that it is actually fear of just punishment, not the parents themselves. My children are not fearful of me. But they are fearful of just punishment. The act of contrition illustrates this. The main reason for repenting should be genuine sorrow for wrong-doing, but there is also fear of just punishment. If we love our children as we are loved by God, this should be true for the parent/child relationship as well.
 
rayne89 said:
No, things have gone wrong since parents allow their children regularly play grossly violent video games, watch cartoons like Southpark as family, allow their children unmonitored access to the internet and don’t teach their children personal accountabilty or respect for authority. Times have definately changed. Parents personal freedom and career ambitions are more important than being home to raise and supervise their children.
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And let us also not forget that if you remove God and any type of moral framework at all from your society (school or otherwise), then anything at all is permissible.
 
St. John,

When I moved to Tennessee in 1993, I was in middle school and they still had the paddle in schools. The part of Tennessee we lived in was by far the most dangerous I ever lived in, and I lived in Michigan, Kentucky and New Hampshire. There were gangs in the Tennessee middle school and high school, and new members were told to rape girls for initiation. The police came and shut the school down because a gun was found in the boy’s bathroom.

Yet there were several times that students were taken out of class to be paddled. So in my experience, paddling does not reduce violence, nor do I believe paddling increases violence. I believe the violence in our schools is much, much more complex.

God bless.
 
I was more thinking of the paddle for elementary kids. They used to use it up to 6th grade. I don’t think it would work to suddenly start paddling teenagers. With my kids, spanking was reserved for the little ones. If you do it when they are young, you don’t need it when they are older. It instills an understanding in them as to who’s in charge that they don’t forget. You have to condition them when they are young.
 
Hmph?! I thought this still went on in most schools today, but from what I am reading here, it seems like NOT paddling is the norm.

Kids are paddled at the public school my daughter attends (she attends one of the best schools in our state). If a parent objects to their child getting paddled, they must submit a letter in writing to the school stating their wishes. Some parents don’t object to their child getting paddled - as long as they are present while it is done - I’m assuming it’s because they want to make sure the child gets paddled, not beaten.
 
St_John said:
I was more thinking of the paddle for elementary kids. They used to use it up to 6th grade. I don’t think it would work to suddenly start paddling teenagers. With my kids, spanking was reserved for the little ones. If you do it when they are young, you don’t need it when they are older. It instills an understanding in them as to who’s in charge that they don’t forget. You have to condition them when they are young.
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If you are responding to my post, the school in Tennessee did not “suddenly start paddling teenagers.” Paddling was a long-standing policy there and was present at my brother’s elementary school there.

The students in middle school would have been paddled in elemendary school and yet there was still violence and other problems at the school.
 
Rob_s_Wife said:
My stance is simple. It has nothing to do with whether spanking is right or wrong. It has to do with the purpose of schools. (Those familiar with me here know exactly where this is going!😉 )

The purpose of schools is to impart information in the fields of maths, reading, writing, history, and sciences.

**Schools are not qualified to be parental authorities or to discipline as parents on any level. **
.
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I totally agree with this statement.
I think that in American culture at least, we have turned over the socialization of our kids to the public school system. And they have no right to it.
This is why I think the public school system should be dismantled, replaced, should be semi-privatized and competitive. We should be able to shop for education for our kids. I would rather have options, or pay for primary education, or do it myself, then settle for what the public has to offer.
 
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