Can Catholic Priests "Help Themselves"?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheBigQ
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TheBigQ

Guest
When I say “help themselves” , I mean to imply … relieve themselves of a certain specific “need” which usually occurs fairly regularly in normal human males … without * , in their case at least, using any sort of “visual aids” and , of course, again in their case, obviously without being in contact with anyone else. That may sound like a bad question but I’m being quite sincere in asking it. I have always wondered about that. Considering the celibacy requirement (which I am not in “disagreement” with , in theory), how can they, considering that they are normal human males , get by?? It is actually believed to be “bad” for a man to not occasionally “help” himself, not only physically bad, but even mentally. You can literally go a bit daft, I have heard it said. Barring literal castration ( urologists can do this today, for a fee of course, and it is said to be a fairly simple and easy to recover from surgery), combined with certain medication(s) which also help lower or completely erase the release of the normal male hormone(s) from the glandular area(s) of the brain from whence it comes, there is no known way to make a human male truly * celibate, even from the so called “solitary vice” ; make him completely “free”, so to speak, of any and all natural “urges” in such directions.

Also, could it be that some of the priests who have so grievously erred in their paths, to put it gently, and unfortunately strayed into the realm of harming others ( the young most frequently), have suffered from a sort of self-imposed “ban” on even this (essentially harmless) “solitary vice” ?? That could account, a long period of mortifying self-repression that is, denying oneself even this simple solitary pleasure, could account for a certain “resurgence” if you will ( of what would have otherwise been perfectly normal naturally “released” fantasies and thoughts) in the form of something much more twisted which ends up manifesting itself in behaviour which we can only call deeply “anti-social”.
 
Not masturbating doesn’t make someone a homosexual nor does it make them a pedophile.

I’m not sure if that’s your question or not.
 
No they can’t. It is seperating the pleasure from the marriage relationship.

Someone who does not ‘releave’ themself is not destined to become a pedophile or to manifest sexual desire in some strange way. I think that these people making these claims are going way over board and do not have any scientific proof. There are many people that remain completely celibate until they are married. They do not have mental problems or manifest desires in strange ways. By keeping yourself celibate with a strong spirituality you destroy the vice. You become so that you do not worry about it or have the temptations like before. You may have some slite temptations still but it is not something that they can’t avoid.
 
No. Masturbating is a mortal sin. It takes genital activity out of its proper context and turns in into a matter of self indulgence—and nothing else.
 
40.png
TheBigQ:
Also, could it be that some of the priests who have so grievously erred in their paths, to put it gently, and unfortunately strayed into the realm of harming others ( the young most frequently), have suffered from a sort of self-imposed “ban” on even this (essentially harmless) “solitary vice” ?? That could account, a long period of mortifying self-repression that is, denying oneself even this simple solitary pleasure, could account for a certain “resurgence” if you will ( of what would have otherwise been perfectly normal naturally “released” fantasies and thoughts) in the form of something much more twisted which ends up manifesting itself in behaviour which we can only call deeply “anti-social”.
Click to expand...
I don’t know - Ask Jesus and St. Paul.

Seriously, if you look at the number of pedophiles in the religious ministries that are married, you’d realize that this has little or nothing to do with the problem.

Notworthy
 
Well, I don’t “Take care of it” because I live chastely. I “get helped out” about every two weeks when I sleep.

On a different note, I know wet dreams are not sinful because we cannot control them, but is it wrong to enjoy them when they do happen? I don’t focus on it all day and make it sinful, but it is more of a “that felt nice” and move on with my life.

Thank God for the internet. I’m glad you all can’t see me. 😛
 
I find it hard to believe that the “m” word, the so called “Sin of Onan” , would or should be a “mortal sin”. If God did not intend man to be the way we are , which is ( again, barring the very few men who are truly on a “higher spiritual plane” than the average man) in an almost constant state of at least potential sexual “excitedness”… then why did he make us this way?? It would be a perverse sort of torture in a way really, to deny a man even the so called “solitary vice”.

I myself am an admitted pornography addict. I love it. I don’t plan to quit. Women , and “images” of women, are my only real “vice”. I don’t drink, or smoke, or take any drugs. Will I quit my vice if / when I ever get married? Maybe, or maybe whomever I marry will be the type with whom we’ll be able to “incorporate” some level of “erotica” into our marriage ( believe me… there are plenty of otherwise perfectly normal couples who do so in their private time). I go to Catholic church on Sundays. Am I a “true believer” in all of the Catholic dogma, etc ?? Not as true as some on these boards, I can tell just by the way they post. But I have some degree of religious belief yes, and furthermore I was just born into it, and it fulfills my need for “social religion” at this particular stage of my life. So I go. I say or feel a general sense of “repentance” when I’m there, the priest absolves us generally , and that’s it. I don’t feel it’s a “mortal sin” at all, and if it technically is, then I disagree with that and take issue with it. I’ll take issue with God himself, if there is one, and there is an afterlife, and he “questions” me on this. I will ask him exactly what I said in the first paragraph: If you wanted me chaste, or not to do this, then why did you make me a normal man, why make me the way I was , or am??? I don’t feel I need to go to confession or anything to confess what I do with porn, when, how often, etc etc. I go to Communion without going to confession about this. It’s between myself and whatever my own personal belief(s) about God is / are , in my opinion. And we all know that there are quite a few Catholics like me, who do not follow “to the letter” but still practice.

I think more priests need to begin to think about “helping” themselves, so that they could clear their minds a bit, and I would bet we would see a marked decrease in abuse scandals in the Catholic church. Otherwise they’re going to simply have to allow them to marry one day. Because clearly something they’re doing now isn’t quite working out right. And it’s not only in America. Look at the recent emergence of scandal in the Church in Ireland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_scandal <~~~ Regarding the Irish Church scroll down the page to the section headed “Ferns Inquiry” and then the section headed “Forthcoming Dublin Inquiry”.
 
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

I pray your heart finds a desire to seek purity in your life and not to refer to our sins as “perfectly normal naturally “released” fantasies and thoughts.” And I pray priests everywhere will seek the same.

God bless you.
 
40.png
TheBigQ:
I myself am an admitted pornography addict. I love it. I don’t plan to quit. Women , and “images” of women, are my only real “vice”. I don’t drink, or smoke, or take any drugs. Will I quit my vice if / when I ever get married? Maybe, or maybe whomever I marry will be the type with whom we’ll be able to “incorporate” some level of “erotica” into our marriage ( believe me… there are plenty of otherwise perfectly normal couples who do so in their private time). .
Click to expand...
I think that’s part of the problem, if you’re a pornography addict of course relinquishing the “one solitary vice” would seem impossible. But it isn’t, it’s difficult, but not impossible by any means.

Pornography is a very seedy industry, it preys on women who are typically abused as children, their fathers left them when they were young, and sexually pleasuring men, is there only recourse for that “father figure” it’s sad. It may seem like a harmless vice, but it isn’t, everything revolves around pornagraphy, organized crime, criminal sexual abuse, drugs, it’s jsut mroally debasing and humiliating for those involved. I would recomend giving it up for your own well being. Pornography can warp your view of women and what a sexual relationship is supposed to be like.

But again not masturbating has nothing to do with sexual sadism, rape, molestation, or any other deviant behavior. I assume the priests who are engaging in that behavior could care less about their vows of chastity anyway, and probably masturbate quite often.
 
The Big Q:
One does not die from lack of orgasm or ejaculation. My husband and I dated for 6 years and we were chaste before marriage. Truly, it won’t hurt you one bit! We spent the times when we really felt tempted in prayer. Our wedding night was very special because we both knew we had sacrificed to get there. No, it isn’t always easy, but we are humans not animals and we have control over “urges” We are not animals, we have coping skills, and when we do not give in to temptation, it is pleasing to God. If you feel you are a sex addict, porn addict or any other addict, I strongly urge you to seek counselling, it is not normal nor is it moral or pleasing to God. As for you not “feeling” like it is a mortal sin…We do not individually decide what is and isn’t sin.

Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God!
 
40.png
TheBigQ:
… then why did he make us this way??
Click to expand...
To connect with your spouse in a loving marriage. To motivate humanity to populate the earth.
40.png
TheBigQ:
I myself am an admitted pornography addict. I love it. I don’t plan to quit.
Click to expand...
You are right to label yourself an addict. As in all addictions, pornography can be deadly to a real relationship. Why go through the trouble of a real relationship when you can have whatever you want on line?
40.png
TheBigQ:
I say or feel a general sense of “repentance” when I’m there, the priest absolves us generally , and that’s it.
Click to expand...
The priest doesn’t absolve you during Mass, if that is what you are talking about. The confetitor (“I confess to Almighty God”) is not the same as the sacrament of confession.
40.png
TheBigQ:
I think more priests need to begin to think about “helping” themselves, so that they could clear their minds a bit,
Click to expand...
Clear their minds?! You take a walk to clear your mind. If you need to do that to clear your mind, you are addicted.
40.png
TheBigQ:
…and I would bet we would see a marked decrease in abuse scandals in the Catholic church. .
Click to expand...
Nope. On the contrary, I bet that most abusive priests feel entitled to “helping themselves” and see sex outside of a marital relationship as “normal”.
 
Calling evil good and calling good evil is the mark of the depravity that is ruining marriages, families, and placing the majority of priests who are good, holy, healthy celebate under suspicion. There is help for sexual addiction and I hope the addicts out there get it before they marry and pass along their perversion to spouse and children.
 
40.png
TheBigQ:
But I have some degree of religious belief yes, and furthermore I was just born into it, and it fulfills my need for “social religion” at this particular stage of my life. So I go.
Click to expand...
You make it sound as if it’s a class that you have to take to graduate and you go because you HAVE to. You should really change it to “it fulfills my desire for ‘social religion’”. You actually need it much more than you are willing to recognize. You won’t recognize that you need more because that would also require to recognize that pornography, masturbation, pre-marital sex, etc. are truly sinful. I’ve been where you’ve been and it’s the addiction that makes you come up with “justifications” for the act.
40.png
TheBigQ:
Furthermore, this is just like any other vice in the world. They are temptations and God gave us the wonderful gift of free will, so we can decide if we give in to those temptations or deny ourselves.
If God did not intend man to be the way we are , which is ( again, barring the very few men who are truly on a “higher spiritual plane” than the average man) in an almost constant state of at least potential sexual “excitedness”… then why did he make us this way??
Click to expand...
Using this logic, we should all be rich, materialistic and enjoying every luxury life has to offer, because I know myself and quite a few others would love to win the lottery, have a nice car, big beautiful house, have people cater to our every desire, etc. I know there are some that give into this, but there are many more that don’t and they don’t because their relationship with God is more important and they recognize that this type of behavior goes against God’s will.
 
40.png
TheBigQ:
**[1] ** I find it hard to believe that the “m” word, the so called “Sin of Onan” , would or should be a “mortal sin”. [2] If God did not intend man to be the way we are , which is ( again, barring the very few men who are truly on a “higher spiritual plane” than the average man) in an almost constant state of at least potential sexual “excitedness”… then why did he make us this way??
Click to expand...
Hello TBQ;

Regarding issue [1]:

Masturbation is a serious sin. It can be a mortal sin, depending upon the state of mind of the individual. Here’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches on the issue:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
Click to expand...
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
Click to expand...
Regarding issue [2]:

God did not make us predisposed to sin. The consequences of Original sin predispose us to sinful conduct. It’s just part of our fallen nature. Further confusing the issue is a nearly overwhelming secular society that makes an idol out of sex. Society tells us that masturbation is “perfectly normal” and “acceptable” - even “necessary” - behavior when in fact masturbation is gravely disordered and could potentially lead to the loss of one’s salvation.

Your argument for justification can apply to alcohol, drugs, junk food, and any other vice that has the potential for addiction, and has just the same amount of weight. Why did God make the effects of alcohol and marijuana so pleasurable if he knew we could become alcoholics and drug addicts? Why did God make KFC chicken so tasty when too much can cause heart disease? He made these things for our benefit. It is we who take God’s gifts and abuse them. The same is true for our sexuality.

-Peace
 
40.png
TheBigQ:
I myself am an admitted pornography addict. I love it. I don’t plan to quit.
Click to expand...
Be advised that sins of (name removed by moderator)urity account for more souls being lost to hell than any single other sin.
 
40.png
kaygee:
Calling evil good and calling good evil is the mark of the depravity that is ruining marriages, families, and placing the majority of priests who are good, holy, healthy celebate under suspicion. There is help for sexual addiction and I hope the addicts out there get it before they marry and pass along their perversion to spouse and children.
Click to expand...
:amen: The fact that supposedly “many otherwise ‘normal’ couples” do it, doesn’t make it healthy. It is not a solitary sin. It is a generational sin that can affect countless people.
 
My biological father (we were protestant) was a voyeur; he always had the Playboy magazine. He sexually molested me, my sisters, and our mother(God rest her soul) for years. The “sexual revolution” in conjunction with radical women’s liberation changed sexual intercourse from PRO-creation to recreation. This shift in our culture promulgated the notion that any “sexual act” out of marriage is okay; today we realize many horrible consequences. I continue to pray for God’s healing in our land.
*Deus meus, ex toto corde poenitet me omnium meorum peccatorum, eaque detestor, quia peccando, non solum poenas a Te iuste statutas promeritus sum, sed praesertim quia offendi Te, summum bonum, ac dignum qui super omnia diligaris. Ideo firmiter propono, adiuvante gratia Tua, de cetero me non peccaturum peccandique occasiones proximas fugiturum. Amen. *
40.png
kaygee:
Calling evil good and calling good evil is the mark of the depravity that is ruining marriages, families, and placing the majority of priests who are good, holy, healthy celebate under suspicion. There is help for sexual addiction and I hope the addicts out there get it before they marry and pass along their perversion to spouse and children.
Click to expand...
 
To all, the following may be explicit for the squeamish.

BigQ,

Porn destroys families.

My father was a pornography addict. It was the only sex education I received. I was already primed to “understand” that women were objects of sexual pleasure. I had no contrary knowledge to defend myself with when I was sexually molested by 4 different adult men, by the time I was 11. That really set the ball rolling to be a sexually active teen, abortion at fifteen and became a stripper.

My father watched pornography EVERY night while I was growing up. I knew what he was doing. The image of my father masturbating is FOREVER engraved in my head. (shudder) I can still remember seeing oral sex on the screen and wondering what that white stuff was. Where is the mental white out when you need it?:o I was four yrs. old.

My parents marriage was horrible. My father always complained how my mother was the “ice princess” and he never got any. As an adult my mother now confides in me, that whenever he touched/es her, she wants to vomit and that he makes her feel disgusting.

To this day, and even when I was young, I could not stand my father touching me. His hugs disgusted me, even when I was very young. And it is very difficult to try and have a normal relationship with him.

My children are not allowed to spend the night there, nor to be there alone with my father. This is at the insistance of my husband, who is concerned for his children, and he has no argument from me. My father never molested me … this is solely because of his pornography addiction.

If you are telling yourself that when you are married, it will be kept a secret from the children … I PROMISE you … it won’t remain hidden. How do you think your pornography viewing will affect the sexual development of your future children … daughters and sons? Whether they will hold the same view of it’s “harmlesness.” How they will look at you. Whether you are prepared to accept the responsibility of the consequences they will have to pay, and whether you are willing to risk the freedoms of your relationship with your future grandchildren.

As a child, I needed a good father to teach me and prepare me for my future male relationships. Pornography robbed me of what God intended for me for a father…

Please prayerfully reconsider your position on the “effects” of porn.

God bless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top