I
IWantGod
Guest
Can non-sentience be the efficient cause of sentience?
Can sentience be cuased by non-sentient parts? If not why not, and if so how so?
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B
Bradski
Guest
A Nobel prize for the first correct answer.
I
IWantGod
Guest
G
GEddie
Guest
Well, we consider ourselves to be sentient, and are comprised of nonsentient parts (the soma cells in our bodies) so I’d say yes.
ICXC NIKA
ICXC NIKA
I
IWantGod
Guest
But is sentience made of non-sentience? Are they identical in nature?
A
Aloysium
Guest
A person is sentient.
A functioning brain is required for a person to understand these words.
A person is a unity of body-spirit.
Sentience ultimately is God’s and given to mankind.
That Sentience is a loving act.
The further we stray from it, from being loving persons, the deeper we fall into ignorance and evil.
This is known by the mind when recognized by the heart.
Proof? Really? For whom?
This is not an intellectual game but a life and death matter.
A functioning brain is required for a person to understand these words.
A person is a unity of body-spirit.
Sentience ultimately is God’s and given to mankind.
That Sentience is a loving act.
The further we stray from it, from being loving persons, the deeper we fall into ignorance and evil.
This is known by the mind when recognized by the heart.
Proof? Really? For whom?
This is not an intellectual game but a life and death matter.
Y
ynotzap
Guest
Mere awareness or sensation that does not involve thought or perception can not be the efficient cause of sentience, for all feeling involves stimulation(,movement) cause and effect, and requires potency and act. Potency and act require movement, and nothing moves unless it is moved by another. Ultimately that which is moved is moved by the Unmoved Mover, who is the efficient cause of all creation, the Uncaused Cause God is the Creator of sentience. God is Pure Spirit, not sentient in His nature, except when Jesus assume human nature, it was His human nature that was sentient, capable of feeling
R
rossum
Guest
Yes. A sentient human being starts as a non-sentient egg and a non-sentient sperm.
Sentience is an emergent property.
rossum
A
Aloysium
Guest
No. A human being begins as a zygote.
R
rossum
Guest
F
fisherman_carl
Guest
I would say no. The efficient cause of sentience is God. The material cause is the immaterial mind and the body.
I can not imagine sentience as an emergent property of merely material things. I can see how through a unity of material things working together that a task can be accomplished. But, I don’t see sentience magically appearing from that. The problem is that no collection of physical objects can explain the you that is reading and contemplating this. How could you recognize yourself as a single individual if your mind is really a collection of parts? Which part is really you that is contemplating this? It seems to me that this must be the immaterial mind, not composed of parts, but still intimately connected to the brain. The formal cause is the soul. The final cause is to know and love God and our neighbour as ourselves.
F
fisherman_carl
Guest
That would be begging the question. Because you are assuming that sentience is a result of nothing but those parts. And/Or you are assuming we are nothing but these parts.
A
Aloysium
Guest
Yup.
N
Nixbits
Guest
Aloysium, by which definition of the word ‘sentient’ are you claiming that a zygote is sentient?
A
Aloysium
Guest
Questions are interesting in that a good one answers itself.
The problem usually lies in formulating the question.
Your question has no answer.
Since you do not know what I mean, anything I say will be meaningless.
Speaking honestly, we are here talking about the wonder of all wonders, Existence itself.
But, sensing what you might want, I will try to say something that you can get your teeth into and argue about. Let’s try:
We know because we are known by He who is the ultimate Knower, Creator and Father of all that is.
One way of looking at it is that we exist within the infinite ocean of His compassion.
We are sentient of our existence from the first instance of our conception.
In utero, the universe of colours, sounds, tastes and feelings, of thoughts and words, it all unfolds in preparation of our departure from the human womb to that which is the world.
It’s sort of paraphrasing what Carl says above.
If we were to have met in real life, in a previous Zen life, I could have asked you to explain, without using any words how it is that you are sentient here. I will ask, the reply is you, yourself.
R
rossum
Guest
I disagree. “Sentient” refers to perceptions (senses). A zygote has no sensory organs. The sensory organs (and the brain they are connected to) develop later.
A human is sentient; a zygote is not.
rossum
A
Aloysium
Guest
Nonsense.
Not much a rebuttal, I would agree. But, what is the point of this encounter?
There is no connection in the understanding of who we are at our most fundamental level
Your comments are very odd coming from a Buddhist.
O
o_mlly
Guest
An effect cannot possess a property, potentially or actually, that does not pre-exist in one or more of its causes potentially or actually. One cannot give what one does not possess. So, the zygote is sentient in potency.
R
rossum
Guest
Water is a liquid at room temperature. Hydrogen is a gas at room temperature. Oxygen is a gas at room temperature. Water is a compound of hydrogen and oxygen. The property of being liquid at room temperature is not present in either component of water, yet is present in water. Your basic premise is wrong.
An emergent property can be present in the result, but not present in the causes.
rossum
R
rossum
Guest
Why? The Buddhist analysis of a human being includes “perceptions” as one of the five components. Since sentience is related to the senses/perceptions then a Buddhist approach is perfectly valid here.
rossum
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