Can the pope do this? (indulgences)

[JSmitty2005]

Okay, I found the following quote of Martin Luther’s on a friend’s website. Can the pope theoretically do this or does Luther have a misunderstanding of indulgences?

“Why does not the pope liberate everyone from purgatory for the sake of love (a most holy thing) and because of the supreme necessity of their souls? This would be morally the best of all reasons. Meanwhile he redeems innumerable souls for money, a most perishable thing, with which to build St. Peter’s church, a very minor purpose.”

 

[mainusch]

Indulgences are a legitimate authority of the Church. Selling them, however, is simony. This is a terrible sin.

 

[JSmitty2005]

mainusch:

Indulgences are a legitimate authority of the Church. Selling them, however, is simony. This is a terrible sin.

I know this, but could the pope just release everyone from purgatory?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

JSmitty2005:

I know this, but could the pope just release everyone from purgatory?

No a souls release from Purgatory is up to God, not the pope.

The Pope using the power of the Keys can establish actions or prayers that can be applied to the Temporal Punishment of souls in Purgatory.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Br. Rich SFO:

No a souls release from Purgatory is up to God, not the pope.

The Pope using the power of the Keys can establish actions or prayers that can be applied to the Temporal Punishment of souls in Purgatory.

So why doesn’t he just make a real quick and easy prayer work and have it be an indulgence all the time and not just on certain days?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

JSmitty2005:

So why doesn’t he just make a real quick and easy prayer work and have it be an indulgence all the time and not just on certain days?

The acts themselves are also intended to remind us or those doing them of something important. For instance an Indulgence granted on Dec 8th 2005 required certain acts in commoration of the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. The point was to draw attention to the Dogma and its meaning which had lost some interest in the last 30 or 40 years and the fact that it is a Holy Day of Obligation. There are many prayers with Indulgences attached that can be used everyday.

 

[Kirane]

Br. Rich SFO:

No a souls release from Purgatory is up to God, not the pope.
.

but if the Pope sets up conditions for a plenary indulgence, then once this plenary indulgence has been gained, can it not be applied to someone in purgatory and remit all of the remaining punishment? Or would the plenary indulgence have no effect ?

 

[batteddy]

We must remember that when we apply an indulgence to one in Purgatory, it is different than when we earn one for ourselves.

We apply indulgences to Purgatory only by way of SUFFRAGE.

The Catholic Encyclopedia article on Indulgences says:

some indulgences are granted in behalf of the living only, while others may be applied in behalf of the souls departed. It should be noted, however, that the application has not the same significance in both cases. The Church in granting an indulgence to the living exercises her jurisdiction; over the dead she has no jurisdiction and therefore makes the indulgence available for them by way of suffrage (per modum suffragii), i.e. she petitions God to accept these works of satisfaction and in consideration thereof to mitigate or shorten the sufferings of the souls in Purgatory.

So the Pope does not simply have the power to free all the souls in Purgatory.

He has the jursidiction to grant remission of temporal punishment to the living. He does not simply release all living sinners of their temporal punishment because it is prudent to make them earn their indulgences through salutary works that may have salutary and meritous effects. It is better excercise for their souls to make them say a prayer than to simply free them.

But as for the souls in purgatory, the Church can only petition God to accept the satisfaction of an indulgence gained by a living person, she cannot automatically free them of her own earthly authority, she can merely beg for them by way of suffrage. We hope that God accepts most indulgences offered to purgatory, but the fact is it is not simply a matter of the Pope saying the gates are open…but of actually offering up satisfaction to plead for the souls in purgatory. And God wants that to be actually earned and offered up, not just some simple bureaucratic mass pardon issued.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

So why doesn’t he just make a real quick and easy prayer work and have it be an indulgence all the time and not just on certain days?

If it were that “easy” it would loose meaning. We help each other out (so to say) with indulgences for the Poor Souls, we don’t just have the pope sign them out.

Martin Luther just did not understand the concept of purgatory very well, or either he just didn’t want to assent to it.

 

[wjp984]

Here is one thing to think of on the issue of indulgences in my opinon. I would speculate that people that had money would probably be in more need of indulgences than the poor since they would not have to suffer as much on earth. Would not the wealthy people of today who give thousands of dollars to the church as an act of charity in hopes that they are doing good and pleasing God and essentially hoping to get into Heaven easier be very similar to people in the Middle Ages who gave their money to the church with the expectaton that they are buying time off from Purgatory?

 

[rciadan]

wjp984:

Here is one thing to think of on the issue of indulgences in my opinon. I would speculate that people that had money would probably be in more need of indulgences than the poor since they would not have to suffer as much on earth. Would not the wealthy people of today who give thousands of dollars to the church as an act of charity in hopes that they are doing good and pleasing God and essentially hoping to get into Heaven easier be very similar to people in the Middle Ages who gave their money to the church with the expectaton that they are buying time off from Purgatory?

You would be correct if the motive behind the giving is, in fact, to buy pardon from sin, which is what was happening then. Pardon cannot be bought and to try to deal with God in that way is just piling up sin upon sin.
I think that most wealthy people are not trying to buy their way to heaven, though some may be. I think that most are simply sharing the blessings that God has given them and doing corporal works of mercy, which is something we are all supposed to be doing!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Kirane:

but if the Pope sets up conditions for a plenary indulgence, then once this plenary indulgence has been gained, can it not be applied to someone in purgatory and remit all of the remaining punishment? Or would the plenary indulgence have no effect ?

It is necessary to remember that Indulgences are *offered *for a soul in Prugatory and we may offer them for a specific soul but, God applies them how and to who He wishes.