Chastity, American Culture, and dating in your 30's

[T1pp]

As single male in his mid-thirties, I’ve found balancing dating and my catholic faith to be biggest challenge I have ever faced. This thread is not for just for me, but all of us single Catholics in our late 20s, 30, and 40s. How do we reconcile the teachings of our church with our cultural norms? How do we resist when the temptation to break chastity is not due, so much, to lust but due to the pain of loneliness? How do we feel about our peers who “broke the rules”, played the game, fell in love, got married, and now have a family?

For me, chastity has become a commitment that I have to make anew each day. To think beyond that scares me to death, because I have to accept that I may end up alone because of it. My commitment has recently cost me a relationship and I even had a family member question my sexuality. Is it worth it? Or do we just play the game that seems to work for everyone else to get to the brass ring of marriage and hope we don’t die along the way before we make it to confession? Sometimes that’s a hard question to answer. Anyway, this thread is for all those who are going through the same thing. How do you cope? Let’s support each other.

 

[TridentineFan]

You are facing some great difficulties, but I’m so pleased to hear that you are renewing your commitment to chastity each day instead of giving in to The World. You are the kind of guy that good Catholic ladies are seeking. I am a woman, so probably not the best person to be responding to you. But I will give you a little feedback nonetheless: I (just) married at 29 my 35-year-old husband. I did not convert to Christianity (from liberal agnosticism) till I was 25, so I had to teach myself about chastity from square one.

I found that I could no longer date “in the world.” I moved exclusively to Internet dating. I’d meet people online, then quickly move to dating in person (protracted time in cyberspace creates a false relationship). That system was fabulous because I wrote in my profile that I would only date orthodox Catholics who were committed to perfect chastity until marriage. I am sure my stance “cost me relationships” but I never had to go through the pain of knowing that because I stopped even going on first dates with men who were not as equally committed as was I. (Before I wrote such bold information in my profile, I had too many mishaps. Saying I was a strong Christian was not enough and EVERY first date I went on, I discovered the self-proclaimed Christian man was not practicing chastity. One rude man got up from our table and walked out from our first date when I told him that I would not have sex before marriage!) Now, dating “in the world” is not totally excluded, but you’ve got to be self-assured enough to inform ladies on the very first date that you respect them and God so much that you will reserve all sexual activity until you are married.

Frankly, to solve the challenges you are facing, I had to radically change my life. I felt like a freak in this world because simply living as an orthodox Catholic made me so unusual. My dress is very modest. Watching most TV, flipping through worldly magazines, going to the mall . . . all those activities made my struggle with chastity harder. So, you might want to try not doing those things.

You are wise to realize that God may never bring you a wife. Perhaps it would help you to read a lot about chastity. Chastity is a lifelong condition. As a single person, you are required to practice “perfect chastity,” which is exactly the same standard to which priests are held! As a married person, one is required to practice “marital chastity.” The chastity does not go away! Marriage is not a ticket to do whatever one wants. In fact, we still cannot lust within the marriage and I suspect that for many it is more challenging not to lust within a marriage (with all its occasion for lusting) than when single and alone!

My husband and I have both told each other how easier everything became when we (before meeting each other) moved beyond “white knuckling it.” We went from consciously practicing chastity daily to simply being chaste people. It might help you to realize that practicing chastity is not something you have to do temporarily till you can “find relief,” but is a skill you must learn for the benefit of whatever path God gives you: single or married. Your wife and marriage will benefit IMMENSELY if you have a chaste heart. Your working on chastity every day may just turn out to be an amazing gift you give your wife that she gets to “open” every day of your married life. Does that help you with motivation?

Trust me, your married friends who went about it the wrong way are not as blessed as those who did it the right way. They may not even be aware of what they missed out on, but I can promise you that the gift of chastity when entering a marriage is worth every struggle.

 

[dulcissima]

Hi T1pp,

It all boils down to this, how trustworthy is God? Do you trust Him with your future? Do you know that He is there for you even when you can not sense His presence?

Here is a prayer for you:

O, Holy Spirit, beloved of my soul…I adore You. Enlighten me, guide me, strengthen me, console me. Tell me what I should do…give me Your orders. I promise to submit myself to all that You desire of me and to accept all that You permit to happen to me. Let me only know Your will.

Keep on being the you that God created you to be. Your sacrifices are bringing you closer to Him, and He will never let you down.

 

[jrabs]

It is a big struggle every day to remain chaste but you cannot compromise your soul along the way. Know that you are not alone in this struggle - all of us who are single and committed to remaining chaste work on these issues also with the help of the Holy Spirit.

The Rosary is a wonderful tool to help in the battle.

How do I feel about my peers who are dating and doing whatever they please? They are responsible for their souls and I will not judge them - I am concerned for my soul. It frightens me to think I can condemn myself. That’s what keeps me focused.

It is very easy to fall in this world, and loneliness is difficult - but as my priest keeps telling me, “We are meant for Heaven, and you should not compromise that reward for a few moments of an earthly pleasure”.

God keep you strong.

 

[dulcissima]

One more little piece of encouragement for you is this quote from St Josemaria Escriva:

Let obstacles make you bigger. The grace of our Lord will not be lacking:“inter medium montium pertransibunt aquae!” - “through the very midst of the mountains the waters shall pass.” You will pass through mountains!

What does it matter that you have to curtail your activity for the moment, if later, like a spring which has been compressed, you’ll advance much farther than you ever dreamed?

 

[beckyann2597]

T1pp:

How do we feel about our peers who “broke the rules”, played the game, fell in love, got married, and now have a family?

I would like some one to answer this one. It is not something I am proud of, but I was one of those people and I am now in a fantastic Catholic marriage with kids. Most of my catholic friends are in the same boat. I have to say though, that we did not have a true conversion of heart until we were already married, but I still would like to know how you all feel about people like me?

 

[T1pp]

beckyann2597:

I would like some one to answer this one. It is not something I am proud of, but I was one of those people and I am now in a fantastic Catholic marriage with kids. Most of my catholic friends are in the same boat. I have to say though, that we did not have a true conversion of heart until we were already married, but I still would like to know how you all feel about people like me?

That’s what makes this so difficult. I don’t feel any judgement torward you. I see people like you and I’m happy for you.

 

[jrabs]

beckyann2597:

I would like some one to answer this one. It is not something I am proud of, but I was one of those people and I am now in a fantastic Catholic marriage with kids. Most of my catholic friends are in the same boat. I have to say though, that we did not have a true conversion of heart until we were already married, but I still would like to know how you all feel about people like me?

I am not sure why we should be concerning ourselves with others around us in dating relationships. It is easy enough for any of us to fall. Is it any better to have a prideful attitude and judge those in relationships?

I have admiration for those - like you- who may have fallen but have gotten up and are stronger with a burning love for God.

 

[Myangel]

Originally Posted by T1pp
For me, chastity has become a commitment that I have to make anew each day. To think beyond that scares me to death, because I have to accept that I may end up alone because of it. My commitment has recently cost me a relationship and I even had a family member question my sexuality. Is it worth it? Or do we just play the game that seems to work for everyone else to get to the brass ring of marriage and hope we don’t die along the way before we make it to confession? Sometimes that’s a hard question to answer. Anyway, this thread is for all those who are going through the same thing. How do you cope? Let’s support each other.

:yup: I know exactly where you are coming from. Although not sure I can help, I am a sinlge 29 yr old female. I came home to the church about 2 years ago after being away for many years and during those years lived a life of sin sin sin. When I came back I worked so hard to be faithful, and it was working until a friend of mine came over from US, when he arrived well all my faithfulness went out the window, I didnt go as far as doing the dirty deed, but the thought was constantly there. Nothing eventuated from his visit (i.e. he applied to live in OZ and family as well as myself were hopeful a relationship could come out of him living here but he decided to go home for a while). WHen he left I felt so empty and ashamed, I couldnt bring myself to pray all I could think about was how could I let someone affect me like that and forget about what Jesus did for me??? Anyway I got back on the band wagon, this guy is out here RIGHT NOW :bigyikes: , we have hung out etc etc but this time I have stuck to my guns, and in my heart all I see is Jesus, his trip this time has not affected me at all. I went to Mass on Sunday and he even came along after not being to mass for many many years I thought NOW ITS MY TURN to have an effect on someone, a positive one rather than everyone else having negative effects on me.

All family and friends are married with children, I have been single for 6 years now and have accepted the fact that I may never get married and will have to live a chaste life, but you know what, after 5 years of grieving over the fact, I now have actually embraced it, “Not as I Will but as you Will”. Its always worth it, Jesus went before us, thats what gets me through.

I agree us singeltons to need encouragement and support, I am here for you buddie and so is everyone else.

 

[1ke]

beckyann2597:

I would like some one to answer this one. It is not something I am proud of, but I was one of those people and I am now in a fantastic Catholic marriage with kids. Most of my catholic friends are in the same boat. I have to say though, that we did not have a true conversion of heart until we were already married, but I still would like to know how you all feel about people like me?

The story of the Prodigal Son is applicable to this entire thread.

The OP is the is the son who remained with his father (and who was resentful of his brother’s treatment upon his return).

You are the Prodigal Son for whom the Father rejoices upon your return.

The faithful son fails to realize his own worth and love of the Father.

 

[T1pp]

1ke:

The story of the Prodigal Son is applicable to this entire thread.

The OP is the is the son who remained with his father (and who was resentful of his brother’s treatment upon his return).

You are the Prodigal Son for whom the Father rejoices upon your return.

The faithful son fails to realize his own worth and love of the Father.

Before you start calling me that resentfull son, why don’t you read a few post up, where I tell this poster that I have no judgemental feelings toward her and that I am happy for her. This is not the same thing.

 

[1ke]

T1pp:

As single male in his mid-thirties, I’ve found balancing dating and my catholic faith to be biggest challenge I have ever faced. This thread is not for just for me, but all of us single Catholics in our late 20s, 30, and 40s. How do we reconcile the teachings of our church with our cultural norms?

Rejoice that you have the Truth and reject what the culture is trying to sell you.

DH and I met through a Catholic singles website (Ave Maria) and just married in August 2005. He was 44 when we married, and I was 38. Yes, it took us a long time to find each other and God’s will. Yes, it could be discouraging, but it never tempted us to compromise our faith.

T1pp:

How do we resist when the temptation to break chastity is not due, so much, to lust but due to the pain of loneliness?

People can be lonely as a single, and also in a marriage. Especially if it is the wrong marriage, for the wrong reason.

Regarding chastity-- You have a minimalist view of chastity if you think it is only for single people. We are all called to chastity within our state of life-- married people are also called to chastity within marriage. It’s not a free-for-all once you marry.

T1pp:

How do we feel about our peers who “broke the rules”, played the game, fell in love, got married, and now have a family?

I find this to be an odd question. How do we feel about anyone who is leading a life contrary to the gospel: we feel compassion, sorrow, and we pray that they will repent.

All that glitters is not gold, friend. So, you envy what they have and yet you cannot know what their private lives are like. Perhaps they envy what you have-- you never know what is going on over on the other side of the fence.

T1pp:

For me, chastity has become a commitment that I have to make anew each day. To think beyond that scares me to death, because I have to accept that I may end up alone because of it.

Chastity is a commitment for each person, each day.

However, your next comment is also troubling to me. You seem to imply that because you are unwilling to sleep with a woman who is not your wife, you are doomed to be alone. That lacks a certain amount of maturity-- a skewed perspective on things. Marriage is not a right, or a commodity. It’s a Sacrament and a vocation. God calls people to marriage. If he puts the desire in your heart, and it’s an authentic call, then he will not fail to fulfill it in his time. His time is not always our time. If you end up alone, it is not because of the requirement of chastity, but because you were not authentically called to a marriage vocation. Perhaps some spiritual discernment with your priest would be helpful.

T1pp:

My commitment has recently cost me a relationship and I even had a family member question my sexuality. Is it worth it?

And St. Lucy had her eyeballs poked out. I’d say you have the better deal here, of the two.

Seriously, we are all called to fidelity to God above anything else. And, if we stew about it and look at it negatively, it will make it more difficult but no less necessary.

Look at your singlehood positively. It is your opportunity to do many things-- travel, work, be involved in charities, parish activities, etc. It is different once you do marry.

I didn’t really get this-- you know, that “other side of the fence” thing. Marriage changes a lot. It’s not better, or worse, than singlehood… but it is very different.

T1pp:

O do we just play the game that seems to work for everyone else to get to the brass ring of marriage and hope we don’t die along the way before we make it to confession?

Well, you seem to view marriage as some prize rather than a true vocation. Maybe that’s your frustration talking.

But, to answer your question-- if you play the game and date and marry a person not committed to the faith, then you will reap what you have sown for 30+ years… or until she divorces you. The thing about those persons who don’t practice their faith is that… well… they don’t practice their faith.

That is not a person for YOU.

T1pp:

Sometimes that’s a hard question to answer. Anyway, this thread is for all those who are going through the same thing. How do you cope? Let’s support each other.

No, it’s not a hard question to answer-- go with God, not with the world.

Yes, it’s hard to cope. But, I propose that you are dating the wrong element and it’s good riddance if they rejected you because you have standards.

If you are authentically called to marriage, then the right person is out there. My DH and I are proof of that. You’re 10 years younger than my DH… so you have plenty of time!

I suggest you work on being the best you that you can be, the best disciple you can be, and the best man you can be. When the right person comes along, you’ll be ready for her.

 

[1ke]

T1pp:

Before you start calling me that resentfull son, why don’t you read a few post up, where I tell this poster that I have no judgemental feelings toward her and that I am happy for her. This is not the same thing.

Not of her… of the situation.

I know that singlehood can be painful when you want to be married. But, you seem to blame chastity. You are being faithful, and we are all required to be faithful. Being unfaithful isn’t the answer-- as the Prodigal Son learned the hard way.

 

[dulcissima]

1ke, You’ve offerred me some really great advice in the past which I really appreciate; however, on this particular thread you seem a little bit more judgmental than perhaps you mean to be. I mean, I think guy is doing great and maybe just needs some encouragement. Truthfully, I am not even single yet, and I’ve been thinking over a lot of the same things and worrying about it a little bit. I’m not sure if that is me putting the horse before the cart or just trying to be prepared to handle future problems. Anyhow, I think what he is feeling is really understandable, and I don’t see him as the other son in the parable of the prodigal’s son, at all.

That being said, I think giving into committing a mortal sin just because you think it might lead to a greater good, really isn’t the way to go. So, following your conscience and God’s commands cost you a relationship, but really it probably saved you from marrying the wrong person. I think someone who doesn’t respect your conscience is not someone with whom you should be considering married life.

 

[Philena]

bitterness makes it easy to be celibate.

 

[montanaman]

Testing… I think a post of mine was deleted…

 

[cynic]

1ke:

However, your next comment is also troubling to me. You seem to imply that because you are unwilling to sleep with a woman who is not your wife, you are doomed to be alone. That lacks a certain amount of maturity-- a skewed perspective on things. Marriage is not a right, or a commodity. It’s a Sacrament and a vocation. God calls people to marriage.

so a person is not allowed to feel lonely or desire a companion?

describing marriage as ‘vocation’ is a way of depersonalising it. And once you do get married, then you’re supposed to view it as a job (the vocation), and love the other person only because you’re commanded to.

If you married somebody simply because you wanted to be with them, well that would be very bad thing, since you were acting on a desire, or a feeling - ans worse still a feeling specific to one person, oh no, the sin of idolatry and infatuation!

 

[LittleDeb]

dulcissima:

That being said, I think giving into committing a mortal sin just because you think it might lead to a greater good, really isn’t the way to go. So, following your conscience and God’s commands cost you a relationship, but really it probably saved you from marrying the wrong person. I think someone who doesn’t respect your conscience is not someone with whom you should be considering married life.

I think this hits the nail on the head with what the OP was talking about when he said “how do we feel about those who broke the rules.” I read it as him saying that it is further temptation to be unchaste.

Speaking as one who broke the rules and is now married (married at 30) and has a family I can say it is the ONE thing I wish I could change. It is true, many people don’t know what unchastity cost them. My husband and I know all too well. We crossed that line with each other because we had crossed that line before. We get it now. Oh, so painfully now. To have memories of others who meant so little clouding your mind is not worth any perceived relationship that might come about.

A big hug of support to those facing the single life and remain chaste. I cannot begin to tell you how much I admire you.

 

[Jemma]

For me, chastity has become a commitment that I have to make anew each day. To think beyond that scares me to death, because I have to accept that I may end up alone because of it. My commitment has recently cost me a relationship and I even had a family member question my sexuality. Is it worth it? Or do we just play the game that seems to work for everyone else to get to the brass ring of marriage and hope we don’t die along the way before we make it to confession? Sometimes that’s a hard question to answer. Anyway, this thread is for all those who are going through the same thing. How do you cope? Let’s support each other.

I posted this in the family life thread… thought I’d put it in here too as this is where the action is!!!
But just wanted to add, I know exactly where you are coming from. I can relate to everything you said. I felt exactly the same way… but I do stress… don’t break God’s rules for anything or anyone!!! It leads to nothing but trouble!

From personal experience, I wish I had my time over. I know exactly what you are going through… but If I could take back what we did before we were married, I would. I cannot begin to explain the problems we are facing because we did not do things ‘Gods Way’
You’ve given a part of yourself that should only be given in marriage and it clouds your vision. That person may not be right for you, yet there is a connection there. You cannot make right judgements about the relationship. You cannot let go when you probably should. It undermines the whole marriage. If you cannot be chaste before marriage, what makes the other peson think you would be in marriage. (not that I am saying all people have these problems… this is from my experience)
It was lonliness too, on our parts… and we loved each other but it was still wrong, wrong, wrong!! Even in your 30’s 40’s or beyond. Age is irrlelevant.
Gods laws are for all ages in all stages of life.
There is guilt, shame and a sense of whatever problems we have, well, we deserve them… we sinned so much.
Keep up the good fight. A relationship you lose over that issue was not worth keeping and would probably have meant more heartache in the long run!
God’s way is the ONLY way. It is right, it makes sense, it is tailored perfectly for our human psyche and any deviation from that causes an untold amount of trouble in the long run, if not here on earth… at least it will in purgatory…hoping in God that one would get to confession and not die in mortal sin along the way!!!
It is not a gamble worth risking.
Keep it up!! You are doing the RIGHT thing, as hard as it is and as easy as it is to think, ‘why not conform to society.’
If I had my time again… i would stand firm, no matter what!!!

 

[T1pp]

Warning: I’m going to call a few of you people out, but I do so tongue-in-cheek, so please do not be offended. I’m joking, but trying to make a point.

I came here because I need inspiration and this is arguably the most morally riotous site on the web. Don’t believe me? skip over to a couple of the other threads and see what kinds of sins people here obsess about. Seriously, go ahead. I’ll wait.

Back? Did you see that one about Yoga? But anyway, I was sure that I would find many inspirational stories of dating couples living chastely and moving toward marriage as well as many married couples who remained chaste with their spouse throughout courtship. Instead, I find lonely bitter, singles with questionable sanity (me included) and former fornicators who are now married, but remorseful. Are your marriages that bad? Are you so repentant that you would trade your life now to back to a life of singlehood? If not, that’s like being sorry for stealing but not willing to return the merchandise.

Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot to mention the couple of success stories from two people who met their spouses on Catholic online dating sites. Is that what we’ve come to?

Here’s the thing. Outside the church, Western Culture has universally rejected the virtue of chastity. Inside the church, the overwhelming majority pays lip service to it, but by and large ignores it until they are married and then they repent. We now live in a society where it can be statistically demonstrated that it is highly unlikely that you will be able to find a spouse while remaining totally chaste. The path to Holy Matrimony does not seem to be through chastity, but, for lack of a better word, through fornication.

Therefore, can the Church responsibly continue to encourage its faithful to pursue marriage while knowing that to achieve success they will almost certainly have to commit mortal sin?

Is the continuance of the Church blessing marriages an endorsement of a corrupt system of courtship from which they are a result? Is that direct cooperation with evil?

Should the Church do a better job of preparing its faithful to live a life solitude and loneliness?

And should the Church shift gears and start promoting a lifestyle of solitude for its lay people, since it is unlikely that marriage is achievable without sinning mortally?

OR….

Should we get a grip on reality and let love and romance be what they are and always have been? And not try to turn them into some depersonalized social contract. Should we simply make mature, responsible, and respectable choices regarding love and intimacy? I’ve been through all of Scripture and I don’t see a call of anything more than that. But then again, I’m not a celibate theologian with no experience with dating. Honestly where does this absolute and inflexible devotion to chastity come from? Augustine? Aquinas? I’m asking. I really don’t know. I mean Paul had some strong opinions regarding sexual morality, but then again, his parishioners were sleeping with their step moms, having orgies and visiting prostitutes. Don’t believe me? Look it up. If Valium exists in Heaven, I’m sure Paul is still sedated after having to deal with some of the things he had to deal with (Favorite Saint by the way!)

So what’s my point? Well. I was chaste yesterday, I am chaste today, and sincerely plan to be chaste tomorrow. But I make an impassioned plea to the fathers of our Church to look at this issue and give us guidance. You want us to get married and make Catholic babies? So do we, but we need your help and guidance in how to get from here to there with out falling into mortal sin. Please no more books about why it is important to save sex for marriage. We know that. Just show us how to get there.