Evangelicals and thinking God is talking to them personally

[LaughingBoy1503]

Not to derail, but this the second thread about people having religious debates in the workplace.
When do ya’ll get the work done?

Said with tongue firmly in cheek.

This happened while working on a two man machine all day. I have the blown up biceps to prove I got my work done Sometimes you can talk and work at the same time in the construction industry. And I am pleased to say that just today my foreman told us that his bosses are very pleased with the job we are doing.

 

[Publisher]

Friends understand what we call “openings” to be the Voice of God to each of us.

God was not heard in the earthquake nor the thunder but in a “Stll Small Voice” God is Heard.

I’ve had many “Openings” in my 50-some-odd-years that I Knew(Gnosis) to be the Voice of God…I heard no audible voice…but I did Hear His Voice.

 

[mek42]

Since you did not quote anyone else’s post and I am the OP I have to say that I hope you were not talking to me. I never said God does not speak to protestants, I don’t believe that God does not speak to protestants. He is God, he can do what he wants. I believe that if someone says that God told them something, but it conflicts with Catholic teaching, then they only think God is talking to them. I am going to believe God spoke the truth through His Church everytime! Not some random person who says otherwise. God promised to lead his Church to all truth. I put more faith in His Bishops and Priests than lay-persons to teach me what God wants me to know. And interpret his word. By that I mean Scripture.

No offense was intended. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[DebChris]

Actually the practice of “randomly opening the Bible” is known as “breaking open the word of God.” This is done by many Catholics as well as non-Catholics. It was something I was asked to do as one seeking to be a Consecrated Virgin. My own experience is God can speak to a person in this manner.

During the process one simply reads scripture and basically tries to determine if a particular group of words, or verse stands out to them. As a 4 year old child, (with no knowledge of this practice) I was reading a bible and this happened to me. The verse that “hit me as personally mine” was: “My grace is enough for you, for in weakness power reaches perfection.”

Now I am not suggesting that this always happens, but it does. God can give us particular instincts about things, situations and people that one could say is his way of communicating with us. But people can confuse their own notions as being that of God when it is not. This is what we must all be careful about.

I have to say I don’t think being a Catholic is a guarantee that a person is “safe” or that being a non-denominational Christian is a guarantee that one is doomed. Only God can know the person’s heart and spiritual state and I am certain He makes provisions for all those who are truly seeking His will and way.

I agree with what you have stated here. Having been immersed in both worlds, a Catholic set adrift in the Bible only protestant world and now trying to be in full communion with THE Church, I can relate to my non-Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. How will they know if no one teaches them? Be compassionate, all they have is the Bible. I do believe God has called them, a few will find their way home, as Catholic’s say, others will just be content, living out their faith by what they learn in the Bible. I have met lots of believers who practice God’s love and mercy and kindness. I have solidly protestant friends who know my husband is converting to Catholicism, we can study the Bible together, we share what we know about the church, and they meditate on that. We are reaching out in love.

It is a mind boggling struggle when you finally realize the Bible alone is not enough. Reading about the saints is a good way to get these modern day saints to realize we are essentially all in the same boat, trusting in God. Now if we can also trust in His church. Don’t criticize your brother, love him into the church.

Both of these posts deal with how we as Catholics use Scripture, and the practice of Lectio Divina. This is an ancient practice within the Church, most commonly associated with monks who will meditate on a single verse of scripture throughout the day.
Yes, God does speak to each and everyone of us in various ways. Many saints have audibly heard God’s voice. I intentionally did not capitalize saints. Discernment is an important element when it comes to recognizing the Voice of God. “My Sheep know Me.” God calls no one to sin. If the voice we hear contradicts Scripture or the Magisterium, then it is not from God.
For many who do not hear an audible voice, God does “place it it on our heart” as to how tonact in a certain situation. This too is part of discernment. Discernment is never rushed. Scripture tells us to go “into our closet” to pray. Individually, we listen to what our heart, or gut, tells us is right, especially in situations that may not appear black or white on the surface. After prayer, there is a peace “beyond understanding” that comes with the decision that has been made when that decision is aligned with God’s will, and a dis–ease when it goes against God’s will.
When it comes to the Last Judgment, what will we be asked other than how much we have loved? Did I give water to my thirsty brother, or feed my hungry sister? In the end, “it i not the one who cries ‘Lord, Lord’ who enters the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of the Father.”

 

[mek42]

Would a Protestant that does not accept the necessity of intercessory Confession, prays repentance directly to God, and believes that God in turn communicates absolution, would this be considered contrary to Magisterium or an example of perfect contrition?

 

[Strevel]

There is a word in psychiatry for people that think that the newscaster on TV is talking to them personally, and that God is doing the exact same.

Don

I have a co-worker who is a non Catholic Christian. When I asked what denomination he was from, he gave me the “Just Christian” answer. So in my head I was like "Ok, he is of the non-denominational denomination lol )

I seem to have gotten him to respect Catholics more, because he told me so. We talk like brothers in Christ but I told him to make no mistake in that I believe that The Catholic Church IS Gods true Church. I believe I told him that after he started in with the “It does not matter if you are Catholic or Christian just as long as…” speech.

He kept trying to tell me afterward that “God has put it in his heart that it does not matter whether you are protestant or Catholic” (only he did not say protestant, he said Christian) I explained to him that if he tells me that God told him something and The Catholic Church tells me something else, I am going to believe my Church not him lol. I guess he kind of understood but tried to tell me the same thing again “God put it in my heart to tell you…” or something a long those lines. I noticed this is typical of the "evangelical type. I also think he does the whole “Randomly open the Bible and whatever page you open, that is what God Is telling you” thing. Any thoughts on this? What do you typically say/do when a evangelical claims that God is telling them to tell you something that conflicts with Church teaching? Maybe he did not directly say “God told me to tell you…” but that is what it seemed like. But I have gotten the “God told me to tell you” speech before by evangelicals. BTW I use to be a protestant Christian and I was not to Crazy about all of that even before I became Catholic.

 

[mek42]

There is a word in psychiatry for people that think that the newscaster on TV is talking to them personally, and that God is doing the exact same.

Don

How can you have a personal relationship without two way communication?

 

[ltwin]

He kept trying to tell me afterward that “God has put it in his heart that it does not matter whether you are protestant or Catholic” (only he did not say protestant, he said Christian) I explained to him that if he tells me that God told him something and The Catholic Church tells me something else, I am going to believe my Church not him lol. I guess he kind of understood but tried to tell me the same thing again “God put it in my heart to tell you…” or something a long those lines. I noticed this is typical of the "evangelical type. I also think he does the whole “Randomly open the Bible and whatever page you open, that is what God Is telling you” thing. Any thoughts on this? What do you typically say/do when a evangelical claims that God is telling them to tell you something that conflicts with Church teaching? Maybe he did not directly say “God told me to tell you…” but that is what it seemed like. But I have gotten the “God told me to tell you” speech before by evangelicals. BTW I use to be a protestant Christian and I was not to Crazy about all of that even before I became Catholic.

As someone who is an evangelical Protestant, I don’t really see why this should bother or concern Christians of other traditions. Personal impressions (whether they are truly divine or simply human in origin) are not unique to Evangelicalism. Christians of any tradition are capable of believing that God has given them a personal word for themselves or another person or has laid a burden on their heart to do some specific thing.

I don’t think we should assume that just because a Christian says that God “talks” to them they are either lying, mentally unstable, or have an over active imagination. If someone has a “word” for me, I listen to it. I never despise prophecy (or word of wisdom, word of knowledge, etc.), but I test everything, as Christians are told to do.

If a word, impression, instruction or burden that someone claims to be from the Lord is contrary to what is revealed in Scripture or I have reasonable basis to doubt the person’s sincerity then I simply put what that person says “on the shelf” so to speak. I am accountable to God, not an individual. I believe that God can use other people to speak to us, but I also believe that God can lead us directly, without mediators. So, I pray about everything and seek guidance from God for everything.

If you do not believe that God has actually spoken to your coworker, I would just tell him that and explain why I believe differently.

 

[Strevel]

How can you have a personal relationship without two way communication?

Just my view and my way of doing things here. It is not necessarily the “Catholic” way, but the way I have been taught in a logical and pragmatic lucid way of growing up. Unnatural acts such as hearing the voice of God, I said “Hearing”, a literal use of the word… is not acceptable as hearing voices whether they be from God, the laptop or a statue in the park, is not normal. Now, term it as listening with your heart and following the teachings of Jesus Christ in a personal way… thats ok and different.
You have a “personal relationship” with the persona created by your personal perception of Christ, and not a personal relationship with Christ. Christ is not speaking to you personally, it is the persona that you have of him that you are responding to.
I understand that it is just words, but words convey ideas and proper use of them is important. Anyone that actually hears the voice of anyone that is not in front of them on the phone or some other electronic device needs guidance.
It is good, in my humble opinion, that you have a deep and abiding relationship and love with “Christ and his teachings”. But to actually hear his voice (and I really don’t think that this is what you were trying to say) is not normal. You have a deep love for the words and teachings, the precepts and life of Christ, right. The first one is not acceptable, the second one is fully normal and even operates within norms.
…not trying to tell others what to do, but trying to better understand the intent and material content of what is being shared.

Don, Las Vegas

 

[DebChris]

As someone who is an evangelical Protestant, I don’t really see why this should bother or concern Christians of other traditions. Personal impressions (whether they are truly divine or simply human in origin) are not unique to Evangelicalism. Christians of any tradition are capable of believing that God has given them a personal word for themselves or another person or has laid a burden on their heart to do some specific thing.

I don’t think we should assume that just because a Christian says that God “talks” to them they are either lying, mentally unstable, or have an over active imagination. If someone has a “word” for me, I listen to it. I never despise prophecy (or word of wisdom, word of knowledge, etc.), but I test everything, as Christians are told to do.

If a word, impression, instruction or burden that someone claims to be from the Lord is contrary to what is revealed in Scripture or I have reasonable basis to doubt the person’s sincerity then I simply put what that person says “on the shelf” so to speak. I am accountable to God, not an individual. I believe that God can use other people to speak to us, but I also believe that God can lead us directly, without mediators. So, I pray about everything and seek guidance from God for everything.

If you do not believe that God has actually spoken to your coworker, I would just tell him that and explain why I believe differently.

What you are talking about here is what I mentioned in my earlier post. Scripture says to test the spirits. One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the gift of discernment, a gift that develops over time as we become more attuned to recognizing the Shepherd’s Voice.

 

[ltwin]

Just my view and my way of doing things here. It is not necessarily the “Catholic” way, but the way I have been taught in a logical and pragmatic lucid way of growing up. Unnatural acts such as hearing the voice of God, I said “Hearing”, a literal use of the word… is not acceptable as hearing voices whether they be from God, the laptop or a statue in the park, is not normal. Now, term it as listening with your heart and following the teachings of Jesus Christ in a personal way… thats ok and different.
You have a “personal relationship” with the persona created by your personal perception of Christ, and not a personal relationship with Christ. Christ is not speaking to you personally, it is the persona that you have of him that you are responding to.
I understand that it is just words, but words convey ideas and proper use of them is important. Anyone that actually hears the voice of anyone that is not in front of them on the phone or some other electronic device needs guidance.
It is good, in my humble opinion, that you have a deep and abiding relationship and love with “Christ and his teachings”. But to actually hear his voice (and I really don’t think that this is what you were trying to say) is not normal. You have a deep love for the words and teachings, the precepts and life of Christ, right. The first one is not acceptable, the second one is fully normal and even operates within norms.
…not trying to tell others what to do, but trying to better understand the intent and material content of what is being shared.

Don, Las Vegas

Most people who talk about “hearing God” or “God spoke to me” don’t mean it in a literal sense.

Nevertheless, I’m troubled by what you wrote above. You state that people claiming to hear the audible voice of God “is not acceptable” because that “is not normal.” When did Christianity become normal or rational?

Last time I checked, Christians believe that Christ raised Lazarus from the dead and later on rose from the dead himself. Somehow, Christians can believe in a God powerful enough to raise the dead but for some reason its against the rules for God to speak audibly?

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

Of course Catholics should believe in the possibility (and historical occurence) of private revelations where God speaks to people in an audible voice, otherwise they would have to dismiss the stories about many of their saints as lies. I think the thing that puts most people on edge is when someone will approach them saying, “the Holy Spirit told me…” when what they are saying contradicts the Catholic faith. Another problem is when people assert that this sort of private revelation is not extraordinary, but a necessary part of the Christian walk. I have a (Protestant) friend who has been scandalized by a group that has repeatedly insisted that she listen for an audible voice before she do anything significant, and that a failure to hear or listen to such a voice means that someone lacks the Holy Spirit. Incidentally, anyone who disagreed with them also lacked the Holy Spirit, which ironically, due to their almost Catholic understanding of justification, would put the entirety of historical Protestantism without the Holy Spirit. This is an extreme and uncommon example to be sure, but just an example of where this kind of extreme Charismaticism (I hope that’s a word!) can lead.

 

[DaveBj]

Most people who talk about “hearing God” or “God spoke to me” don’t mean it in a literal sense.

Nevertheless, I’m troubled by what you wrote above. You state that people claiming to hear the audible voice of God “is not acceptable” because that “is not normal.” When did Christianity become normal or rational?

Last time I checked, Christians believe that Christ raised Lazarus from the dead and later on rose from the dead himself. Somehow, Christians can believe in a God powerful enough to raise the dead but for some reason its against the rules for God to speak audibly?

Even Kenneth Copeland (mentioned in #6), who claims to hear from God a lot, frequently specifies that he does not hear an audible voice, but that he hears the message “in his spirit.”

 

[ltwin]

Even Kenneth Copeland (mentioned in #6), who claims to hear from God a lot, frequently specifies that he does not hear an audible voice, but that he hears the message “in his spirit.”

I understand that. I personally have never heard God speak to me in an audible voice, but I do believe he has spoken to me.

I don’t insist that everyone should hear God in an audible voice. I just think its odd that a Christian would say that hearing God in an audible voice “is not acceptable” because it “is not normal.”

Out of all the miraculous things that Christians believe in, explicitly prohibiting the possibility of audible communication with God solely because it does not fit into a Western, rationalistic, scientific worldview makes no sense. To me, it indicates that some Christians are conforming their faith to the world’s expectations of what is possible or normal. I find this odd and somewhat troubling.

 

[Eruvande]

I’m an evangelical and I believe I have felt the prompting of the Lord to become a Catholic. Go figure

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

I’m an evangelical and I believe I have felt the prompting of the Lord to become a Catholic. Go figure

That sounds more agreeable to Catholic ears than Protestants attacking the Eucharist under inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Eruvande]

In all seriousness, I was reading John 6 and it felt like God was saying - here I am, see Me. So I would never believe God was drawing me away from the Eucharist.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I’m an evangelical and I believe I have felt the prompting of the Lord to become a Catholic. Go figure

I have been there too. I am a protestant convert I believe God spoke to me through the ways he knew I would best be converted. I did not hear a voice. I believe He spoke to me through The teachings of His Church and her apologetics and then opened my eyes to see and understand what I never would have before about The authority he gave to His Church to do his will. Then nudged me to come into full communion with her so that I may be closer to him and have hope to be saved (I am not saying that non-catholics cannot be saved and The Church does not teach that either)

Though I believe it does happen, I just get this gut feeling that most the time when someone is always claiming God is speaking to them in some way (every little coincidence is God speaking to them) I find it hard to believe them at all lol. Maybe my discernment will get better with more time and prayer.

 

[DAML72]

I have a co-worker who is a non Catholic Christian. When I asked what denomination he was from, he gave me the “Just Christian” answer. So in my head I was like "Ok, he is of the non-denominational denomination lol )

I seem to have gotten him to respect Catholics more, because he told me so. We talk like brothers in Christ but I told him to make no mistake in that I believe that The Catholic Church IS Gods true Church. I believe I told him that after he started in with the “It does not matter if you are Catholic or Christian just as long as…” speech.

He kept trying to tell me afterward that “God has put it in his heart that it does not matter whether you are protestant or Catholic” (only he did not say protestant, he said Christian) I explained to him that if he tells me that God told him something and The Catholic Church tells me something else, I am going to believe my Church not him lol. I guess he kind of understood but tried to tell me the same thing again “God put it in my heart to tell you…” or something a long those lines. I noticed this is typical of the "evangelical type. I also think he does the whole “Randomly open the Bible and whatever page you open, that is what God Is telling you” thing. Any thoughts on this? What do you typically say/do when a evangelical claims that God is telling them to tell you something that conflicts with Church teaching? Maybe he did not directly say “God told me to tell you…” but that is what it seemed like. But I have gotten the “God told me to tell you” speech before by evangelicals. BTW I use to be a protestant Christian and I was not to Crazy about all of that even before I became Catholic.

My advice would be to question why this bothers you so much. Are more concerned about his soul or being right? Pray for him, and in the meantime see if you can maybe find a more charitable way of discussing these things with him.

 

[Deana83]

I have no doubt that God talks to people. But if someone is saying God told them to tell me something or that God has put something on their heart, but it conflicts with what God has revealed to The Catholic Church (It does not matter as if you are protestant or Catholic) I have to believe that person is just talking to themselves in their own head. Especially if they are telling me to just “Forget the whole Catholic and Christian thing”

I don’t get the whole,"God put it on my heart…"The only people I ever knew that would use that phrase were usually using it to justify or excuse some behavior. Personally, I feel everyone should have some sort of spiritual advisor no matter what your philosophy or religion is. The human mind has a way of really screwing up divine communication or conjuring up our own- I just don’t trust myself anymore on this issue. I felt this way long before I started going to Catholic Mass with my husband. My parents are born again "just’ Christians so I’ve had an earful of that. I wish they would convert but it will never happen.