experience with catholics

[bengal_fan]

this is not intended to be mean spirited or judgmental. i just want to know what everyone thinks about this. i am a protestant minister considering joining the catholic church. i know the historical arguments, the scriptural arguments, and i’ve heard personal testimony from a number of people. but i had to get some response about my personal experience with catholics. now remember i said i am a protestant minister but i was raised catholic. i attended mass every sunday until i moved out of my parents home. i tried to experience God in church but either i didn’t understand what was going (which is most likely even though i asked many questions and went through CCD and confirmation) or was too distracted by the echoes of crying babies. anyway, in my experience (which was 19 years of mass, 4 years of parochial school, a very catholic mother and grandmother, and living in many different places attending a number of parishes, and having many friends who claim catholicism) i see very few “catholics” whose faith is really a part of their lives. they seem to be the ones who (and this was accused of protestants on a different thread) only spend 1 hour a week with God and the rest of the week they live for themselves. their language (meaning dirty words, course joking) is reprehensible for some one who claims Christ. they make the excuse that they can just go to confession when they sin so it’s not any big deal (protestants are accused of believing they can do anything and still go to heaven. while they do believe this, they also are in general moral people who try to follow Christ’s commands and have more accountability. now i know catholics claim that confession is the best accountability but if it is anonymous what is the motivation to change?). i have met very (and i really do stress VERY) few catholics who really live their faith. now i know not to judge the faith by the believers, but in a sense we are supposed to do just that. i also know that some of these people aren’t true believers while others haven’t been properly catechized. futhermore, this website has shown me that there are many (and i do stress MANY) catholics who do love and live their faith and for that i am grateful to see. but what do you all think of the rampant (and i do believe it is rampant) lack of faith of american catholics? it really has become a religion, a series of hoops to jump through for most of the people i have come into contact with. i know this is long but it is one of the obstacles keeping me from the catholic church.

 

[St_Veronica]

bengal_fan:

this is not intended to be mean spirited or judgmental. i just want to know what everyone thinks about this. i am a protestant minister considering joining the catholic church. i know the historical arguments, the scriptural arguments, and i’ve heard personal testimony from a number of people. but i had to get some response about my personal experience with catholics. now remember i said i am a protestant minister but i was raised catholic. i attended mass every sunday until i moved out of my parents home. i tried to experience God in church but either i didn’t understand what was going (which is most likely even though i asked many questions and went through CCD and confirmation) or was too distracted by the echoes of crying babies. anyway, in my experience (which was 19 years of mass, 4 years of parochial school, a very catholic mother and grandmother, and living in many different places attending a number of parishes, and having many friends who claim catholicism) i see very few “catholics” whose faith is really a part of their lives. they seem to be the ones who (and this was accused of protestants on a different thread) only spend 1 hour a week with God and the rest of the week they live for themselves. their language (meaning dirty words, course joking) is reprehensible for some one who claims Christ. they make the excuse that they can just go to confession when they sin so it’s not any big deal (protestants are accused of believing they can do anything and still go to heaven. while they do believe this, they also are in general moral people who try to follow Christ’s commands and have more accountability. now i know catholics claim that confession is the best accountability but if it is anonymous what is the motivation to change?). i have met very (and i really do stress VERY) few catholics who really live their faith. now i know not to judge the faith by the believers, but in a sense we are supposed to do just that. i also know that some of these people aren’t true believers while others haven’t been properly catechized. futhermore, this website has shown me that there are many (and i do stress MANY) catholics who do love and live their faith and for that i am grateful to see. but what do you all think of the rampant (and i do believe it is rampant) lack of faith of american catholics? it really has become a religion, a series of hoops to jump through for most of the people i have come into contact with. i know this is long but it is one of the obstacles keeping me from the catholic church.

It comes down to this…if you know the Church is Truth then there are no excuses to not come back into full communion.

There are lukewarm people in all denominations. By example you can show them a way they can live their faith…perhaps that’s your calling.

SV

 

[weunice]

This question was asked here …
209.239.45.222/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=326&forum=DCForumID7&viewmode=threaded … and there are some good responses. Here is mine from that very thread.​

Dave Armstrong did an excellent article on this very topic in this most recent issue of “This Rock” … This is what I remember from the article but I will not get into ANY detail. I will then add my own ideas to it and see if that helps. Consider the following biblical examples …
** The wheat and chaff
** Jesus rebuked 6 of the 7 apostolic churches in Revelation for the same kind of things we see in the Church today …

The second example shows a pretty depressing thing that continues throughout the history of the Church … There is rampant sin in the Church.

Tertullian left the Church in favor on the Montanists, in the early 3rd century because of the rampant divorce within the members of the Church. Sin was rampant in the Church then.

This goes on and on and on, in every age of the Church. Sin, from the laity all the way up to the Pope.

Schismatics and heretics usually lean towards the traditional side on morals. They usually fight against some abuse that is actually occurring, however their solution is the easy one, which is to divide the Church in order to solve the problem. They literally discard EVERYONE which includes all of the problem members. This division leaves the chaff to fend for themselves and collects the wheat into groups. As that group develops chaff, the division occurs again. You end up with groups of loosely collected, very theologically liberal Christians and groups of people who collectively demonstrate very much of what Christ taught us. The morally upstanding tend to group together and they CHOOSE to be at Church.

Now consider the Catholic Church. Schism is wrong. If things go wrong, they have to be handled in the Church. You cannot leave the Church founded by Christ and start a new one and collect all of the moral folks together in order to purify teaching and return to the true faith. You get stuck with the sinners. Not only that, you are encouraged to attend mass close to where YOU LIVE. Catholics generally do not choose to congregate into orthodox and liberal. Some do, but many go to mass at the closest church. This is fundamental to the idea of Catholicism. It is part of the creed. ONE Catholic Church. People remain Catholic, good and bad. Some are wheat. Some are chaff. Remember also, in Catholicism, it is an obligation to attend mass and there are many cultural Catholics who do so because they fear hell if they do not attend church. They figure if they show up to church, are relatively decent folks, then they are OK …

It is a combination of factors. Add them together and this is the Church as it has been throughout the history.

To me, it is a miracle that the doctrine of the Church has remained as incorrupt as it has with 2000 years of this. To me, that is sign enough that this is where I belong.

 

[picasso_13]

I’ve had many of my friends think I was Protestant because of my zeal for my faith. They were then shocked when I said I was Catholic. I do agree with you on the apparent lack of faith, but I think this is just because we have many “cultural” catholics in the USA. Just like someone from the south claiming they were Christian just because they are from Georgia. Working with the youth group at my church I can tell you that there are many active young Catholics, but I do believe we could improve on our teaching of the faith.

I have found that there are many Protestants out there that have little faith, but they have the ‘right’ answers.

 

[Lee]

I am a Catholic who grew up in Indiana. Not very many Catholics, all my friends are Protestant. A lot of them dont go to church, they drink alcohol more than I do, swear, etc. I have born again christian cousins who crack on me that I must drink alot because I am Catholic. But you get them alone and they admit they drink. I have always liked the verse where Jesus says he came not for the righteous but for the sinner. Does a doctor come to heal the healthy? Christs body, the Church is made up of exactly those people he came to help. Sinners. Catholics dont hide their sinfulness. We dont memorize a few verses then think we can judge everyone else. Should we do better, yes. It is frustrating. Come help us out!!!

 

[Salmon]

Bengal_Fan:

i have met very (and i really do stress VERY) few catholics who really live their faith. now i know not to judge the faith by the believers, but in a sense we are supposed to do just that. i also know that some of these people aren’t true believers while others haven’t been properly catechized. futhermore, this website has shown me that there are many (and i do stress MANY) catholics who do love and live their faith and for that i am grateful to see.

I t appears that the answer to your puzzlement is to be found within your observation.

The only difference between the two groups you see is that one portion takes their Catholic faith very seriously, while the other group is concerned with other matters.

You are inadverdantly presenting a very powerful argument for becoming Catholic. The only difference between the two groups is their degree of fidelity to the teachings of the Church.

What difference would it make in your life?

God bless you on your journey. You are in my prayers. Please pray for us as well, will you?

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[Richard_Lamb]

Yes sadly one of the biggest problem with catholicicms is Catholics

 

[arnulf]

When Jesus told Peter to feed his sheep, that was a pretty good analogy. There are a lot of us, we are easily led astray, and most of us are dirty, smelly, and not too bright. But we still need to be fed, so come help out.

 

[Poisson]

Richard Lamb:

Yes sadly one of the biggest problem with catholicicms is Catholics

I believe what adds to this particular problem is that there are many “Catholics” who still refer to themselves as Catholic even though they have not been to a mass in years. Are they really Catholic?? I have in-laws who have not been to a Catholic mass since my wedding 15yrs ago and still refer to themselves as Catholic. I don’t think the same situation exists in Protestantism. I have never met a person who will refer to themselves as a Presbyterian if they do not currently attend a Presbyterian church.

 

[Richard_Lamb]

Poisson:

I believe what adds to this particular problem is that there are many “Catholics” who still refer to themselves as Catholic even though they have not been to a mass in years. Are they really Catholic?? I have in-laws who have not been to a Catholic mass since my wedding 15yrs ago and still refer to themselves as Catholic. I don’t think the same situation exists in Protestantism. I have never met a person who will refer to themselves as a Presbyterian if they do not currently attend a Presbyterian church.

I have meet members of many faiths that are non-practicing…

 

[Richard_Lamb]

arnulf:

When Jesus told Peter to feed his sheep, that was a pretty good analogy. There are a lot of us, we are easily led astray, and most of us are dirty, smelly, and not too bright. But we still need to be fed, so come help out.

I anmong the smelly and not to bright…but am doingmy best those that need it…

 

[bengal_fan]

weunice:

Remember also, in Catholicism, it is an obligation to attend mass and there are many cultural Catholics who do so because they fear hell if they do not attend church. They figure if they show up to church, are relatively decent folks, then they are OK …

but you see, that is the problem i’m talking about. i know that there are similar problems in protestant churches, and i have lived in the “bible belt”, but in my experience it is far more rampant in catholicism. to the point it is joked about in popular culture. a little example: edward burns is a film director, writer, actor (he was in “saving private ryan”, wrote and directed “she’s the one” and other independant type films) and a catholic. i am not sitting in judgement on the man, i am just stating observations (and i like his films very much and he seems like a guy i would like hanging out with in a very heterosexual sort of way). he has appeared publicly as a catholic (talking about his faith and church and even going on david letterman on ash wednesday with the ash on his forehead). he has also appeared publicly as living with a woman he wasn’t married to (i could be wrong of course and i know he is now married with kids). he was bleeped in an interview for cursing. the movies he writes, although entertaining, are not the most morally uplifting and the parts he plays are the same. not that that is a “grave” sin or anything but if you are going to portray yourself as a Christian you will be held to a higher standard. now, some of the same things have been said of mel gibson or jim caveziel (Jesus from “the passion”) who are both catholics (incidentally, i got to hear jim speak at a pre-screening of the passion which i was fortunate enough to be invited to and i do not doubt his faith one iota, a great Christian witness in hollywood). but they are both very active in their faith and issues which affect it while i haven’t seen the same from ed burns. he seems to be what is called a cultural catholic and they seem to outnumber the truly faithful, while i would say truly faithful protestants would at least be at equal numbers with cultural ones who go through the motions. i am not trying to slander anyone and if i am wrong about ed burns PLEASE let me know but i was just trying to demonstrate that it is a bigger problem in the catholic church than in the protestant churches, at least it is perceived that way. a stereotype comes from some sort of truth as miniscual as it may be.

 

[bengal_fan]

i guess a more fruitful discussion would be this:

what are you, as catholics who know and love your faith, doing to help fix this problem?

you need to be active. look at the biggest influence on catholicism (at least in america) today. they are former protestants. there is something to that. they have come from a tradition that has a zeal for their faith. the catholics used to have it (the inquistion…lol, just kidding) but lost it somewhere. why is it that the (excluding captain Karl Keating :tiphat: as he is a cradle catholic) “protestant invasion” of the catholic church is what has really inspired the surge in lay apologetics? so please tell me what you as catholics are doing to help those in your congregations. and if anyone lives near me, i have a list of people for you to go after as they won’t listen to a protestant and i have no desire to lead them from the catholic church (i have done enough of that in my life and am regretting it as i may “cross the tiber”.).

 

[arnulf]

bengal_fan:

what are you, as catholics who know and love your faith, doing to help fix this problem?

The view isn’t quite as bad from within the church. A great number of people attend mass faithfully and often daily, and do many good works in the community. There are often active Bible studies and prayer groups. Many lay people are active in various ministries within the church, and also outside it, such as bringing Holy Communion to the sick and shut in, visiting people in hospitals and nursing homes, jail and prison ministry, working with migrant laborers, staffing food pantries and homeless shelters, etc. A lot of these people live out their faith actively but may not talk about it too much.

 

[bengal_fan]

arnulf:

The view isn’t quite as bad from within the church

i was actually “in the church” for 19 years and my point is that yes there are some living out their faith (although i would say that yes you should “witness everyday, use words when necessary” but i think people have taken that wonderful quote and used it as an excuse to never say anything) but there are more who don’t. i have never seen or experienced (and maybe there are some out there) a catholic congregation where a majority of the people are following church teachings and truly living their faith. whereas i have experienced that in protestant churches. so my question comes back, what are you as catholics who llive and love your faith doing to help the “chaff” as it was called in an earlier post?

 

[bengal_fan]

i guess let me add to this:
what can I do (if i do convert to catholicism) to help this situation as it seems that the catholic church (at least in america) relies heavily on these protestants who return to the church. i know this is a bit of an incendiary comment and it was meant to be because cradle catholics should be the ones taking the lead in all of this.

 

[Poisson]

bengal_fan:

i guess a more fruitful discussion would be this:

what are you, as catholics who know and love your faith, doing to help fix this problem?

you need to be active. look at the biggest influence on catholicism (at least in america) today. they are former protestants. there is something to that. they have come from a tradition that has a zeal for their faith.

I’m not really sure what you are getting at. If you are asking poeple on this board what we are doing to promote the faith you will probably loads of answers.
As far as my own situation is concerned, I wanted more reverence in the music at church so I picked up my guitar and got involved, I thought our RCIA program was producing lukewarm Catholics so I volunteered, I thought that those getting married were not being given the beautiful truths our Church has on love and sexuality so my wife and I signed up to help with our marriage prep program and I thought that joining St. Vincent DePaul Society would be a good way to show those who do not come to church some Christian love so I did.
I’m sure that most people on this board will be very involved in their own parish to activate the lukewarm Catholics.
It does no good to stop ask “what is being done?” what we need to ask is “what can I do?”

 

[weunice]

bengal_fan:

but you see, that is the problem i’m talking about. i know that there are similar problems in protestant churches, and i have lived in the “bible belt”, but in my experience it is far more rampant in catholicism. … i was just trying to demonstrate that it is a bigger problem in the catholic church than in the protestant churches, at least it is perceived that way. a stereotype comes from some sort of truth as miniscual as it may be.

I live in south Louisiana. We are very Catholic around here. We also lead the nation in per capita smokers and alcohol related incidents are unfortunately the norm. My engaged Encounter (which we attended as a Protestants) was one of the worst collections of Catholics I have ever had the misfortune of being in a room with. That experience delayed my conversion by 2 years easy. That said, I came home and we are STILL seeing big conversions from Protestant Churches despite this. God is doing something and He wants me to be a part of it.

I have to admit that this is a bigger problem in the Catholic Church because it, by nature, is one and universal. The Church is a hospital for the sick. Catholicism has a draw for lapsed Catholics because it is the truth. There is something about it …

If you have to think of it in Protestant terms, consider it a missionary ground and a challenge. Trust me. Few things have challenged me as a recent revert as the person in the pew next to me wearing paper thin shorts and an Abercrombie and Fitch T-Shirt with a slogan about an active sex life. Nothing has challenged me more than the complete difficulty of finding like minded orthodox Catholics who use NFP and have a bunch of kids. I feel out on a limb sometimes. These boards are the best I get. I have to trust that where He is leading me is where I need to be. I believe the claims of the Church apart from Satan’s attempts to discredit and destroy it. The gates of hell will not prevail … Like I said earlier. This is nothing new and the teachings remain. The Eucharist remains. Hell has yet to prevail and that gives me hope for the future.

I could spend all of my time hanging out with more like minded persons but when the dirty sinner on his knees next to me, broken and just hours away from ending it all, needs me to tell him about the love of Christ and why confession and the Eucharist is what he needs, God needs me there and not hanging out in a room of very moral people complaining about all of the sin in the world.

I think we need fellowship with strong believers but God needs us in His Church … He is CALLING you home along with other Protestants because He wants your help. If the number of Protestants citing this hurdle would just clear it and finish crossing the Tiber, the Church would be better for it.

 

[bengal_fan]

poisson,
you are quite right and i did ask that probably right as you were admonishing (and i use this word in the good sense) me. the things you listed are exactly what i’m looking for with that question. the reason i didn’t originally ask “what can i do” is that i am not a catholic, so i don’t have any say and i don’t want to proseletize catholics as i have done that enough in my life and regret it. so that’s why i asked what the catholics are doing to light a fire under their “lukewarm” brothers and sisters. remember that God said he would rather us be hot or cold, but since we’re lukewarm He will vomit us out of His mouth. pretty strong language. i’m going to watch judge judy now as i like strong language.

 

[weunice]

What am I doing? …

Well I am getting involved in apologetics groups, EE and anything else that will put me in a position to get orthodox teaching out to the laity. I think every church should have an active apologetics group that leads occasional talks so that lay Catholics can learn and better defend their faith.

Sticking with CA and other groups that make this easier is a good thing. The 100 questions book for the Passion sold over 1 million copies. That is a start and it will only get better.