Fatima ? I'm beginning to doubt

[laocmo]

Listening to a Catholic Talk Radio show this morning about Fatima. Seems the supposed apparition of Mary told Lucy that there would be a coming fashion trend in women’s fashions that will make God very angry. That the great majority of souls in Hell are there because of sins of the flesh. That it offends God greatly for women to expose their bodies immodestly, etc. No mention of men’s fashions, and no mention of how offended God was at the fact that several million of his creatures had just killed each other off in WWI. She also reported that a new and more terrible war would happen. Something, that in my opinion any observant person who studied the Treaty of Versailles could figure out was eventually inevitable. The more I read about Fatima, the more I doubt the veracity of what took place there. God complaining about women’s fashions at a time when millions of Germans and Russians were laying rotting in the fields of Europe seems banal and ludicrous. Any opinions?

 

[Corki]

If you read the histories of private revelations, most have a very narrowly targeted message. The fact that the messages of Fatima did not include everything going on in the world does not mean anything in terms of their veracity.

But, like all private revelation, you are under no obligation to accept the messages or Fatima. If you can’t wrap your head around it, just set it aside and move on.

 

[Polyphony]

God complaining about women’s fashions at a time when millions of Germans and Russians were laying rotting in the fields of Europe seems banal and ludicrous. Any opinions?

Yes. I find the utter pornographication of the Western World over the past 100 years to be a gross impediment to the salvation of souls. Many tens of millions of souls are deeply addicted to gravely sinful sexual actions, and families are being ripped to shreds as a result, to say nothing of the carnage such addiction brings to one’s soul.

While war is horrible, the death of the soul is infinitely and eternally more significant.

I see nothing banal or ludicrous in bringing this up.

 

[robertmidwest]

You are not obligated to believe private revelations. I would lean towards being in the same boat with you.

I agree with Corki just move on.

 

[jediliz]

Bikinis look like walking around in your underwear, especially the more immodest ones that “ahem” enhance “ahem” the top.

Daisy duke short shorts.

Anything designed to ENHANCE showing certain female body parts.

Even strapless dresses go too far with little coverage for the top.

Mary was correct about a more devastating war (world war 2)

 

[Nelka]

Yes. I find the utter pornographication of the Western World over the past 100 years to be a gross impediment to the salvation of souls. Many tens of millions of souls are deeply addicted to gravely sinful sexual actions, and families are being ripped to shreds as a result, to say nothing of the carnage such addiction brings to one’s soul.

While war is horrible, the death of the soul is infinitely and eternally more significant.

I see nothing banal or ludicrous in bringing this up.

Very true.

 

[KidCatholic1]

God complaining about women’s fashions at a time when millions of Germans and Russians were laying rotting in the fields of Europe seems banal and ludicrous. Any opinions?

This does seem unusual. I’ve not extensively read about Fatima, although I am interested in Marian Apparitions, but… it’s hard to see that God is more worried about feminine clothes than His own children killing each other.

 

[roseofshannon]

Matt 10:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:4

4 “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

She also reported that a new and more terrible war would happen. Something, that in my opinion any observant person who studied the Treaty of Versailles could figure out was eventually inevitable.

In fairness, Fatima was long before the end of WWI and the Treaty of Versailles.

In any case, if you don’t want to believe in the apparitions, don’t. There is no need to.

 

[commenter]

This does seem unusual. I’ve not extensively read about Fatima, although I am interested in Marian Apparitions, but… it’s hard to see that God is more worried about feminine clothes than His own children killing each other.

I don’t speak that language, but I am told the word translated as “fashions” has a broader meaning, including modes or trends in personal life - including clothing. Even in the narrow sense of clothing, this may be more prophetic than meets the eye. Soon after 1917 societies in the West began much more explicit emphasis on women and to a lesser extent men dressing for sexual enticement. Rather suddenly a trend began, which we can all see today, but nobody saw coming in 1917. So don’t label it unimportant.

Keep in mind Fatima is (approved) private revelation. It should not be an end in itself, but a catalyst, a preparer, that for some (not all) Christians helps facilitate greater attention to public revelation, to the Mass, and works of charity. As for the original message of Fatima itself, it is fine. The problem, just as with all good things, is that it attracted parasites and abuses. Every time someone wants to boost their website hits and donations, they come out with add-on make shift"revelations": for instance, that Mary DISAPPROVES of the current pope and bishops, that Russia was NOT properly consecrated, that Mary is demanding, right now! that the Church do X, Y, and Z. (Whatever the author or website wants done). the fact that good things attract abuses should not close our eyes to the original good thing that Fatima still stands for, for the heart that is open.

 

[ialsop]

What sends more people to hell? Lust or dying in war?

You have to understand how Our Lady talked about war. War was not seen as an ORIGINAL CAUSE of evil. Rather, it was the RESULT of evil and sins. Lust and sins begat war.

Don’t believe me(or rather, Mary, since it wasn’t my theory)?

Look at the twentieth century.
The seeds begin to be sown of sexual immoral trends…and World War 1.
Immodesty and the roaring 20s come and pass…World War 2.
Sexual Revolution…Cold war, Vietnam, ect ect ect…
And now EVERYTHING has gone screwy on sexuality…and we have an age of perpetual terrorism, war, and violence.

Let me just tell you. That boy in his bedroom addicted to pornography because he looks at clantly dressed girls with lustful intent is in WAY more danger than those boys who are were rotting on the Eastern Front.

 

[KEP1983]

Obviously if He says that a “worse war is coming,” that means He’s concerned about war. You don’t say something bad is coming if you don’t think it’s bad.

From what I recall, it said that the wars were punishment for sin. Same thing you see in scripture.

“Sins of the flesh” refer to sexual sins by both men and women. Pretty strange that Our Lady knew this was coming, before the sexual revolution, pill, and latex condom’s invention. So both are at fault in the sexual revolution.

I don’t see why men’s fashions would contribute that much to lust. Watch a man walk down the street in a skimpy outfit, and then watch a woman do the same thing. Very different effects.

 

[MPat]

Many points have been covered already, thus I’ll concentrate of the one that hasn’t been covered yet:

She also reported that a new and more terrible war would happen. Something, that in my opinion any observant person who studied the Treaty of Versailles could figure out was eventually inevitable.

No, it was not inevitable. Just imagine some possibilities:

1. 
   *]Hitler is shot and dies during Beer Putsch. Nazis have no leader capable of taking power, Germany has no leader capable of starting a big war. No war.
   *]German Communists agree to support some non-Nazi German government (deciding that that is better than ending up in concentration camps). Nazis do not end up in power. No war.
   *]France responds to remilitarisation of Rhineland with force. Hitler is humiliated and overthrown. No big war.
   *]France and UK support Czechoslovakia over Sudetenland. Hitler backs down or ends up fighting a war with a worse army and loses it soon enough. No big war.
   *]Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is not signed for one reason or another (for example, Stalin really decides to avoid war, Nazis or Soviets fail to overcome their aversion to each other, or get too greedy in the short run). Hitler decides to avoid risking a big war over Poland. No war.
   *]UK sues for peace after fall of France. No big war.
   *]Hitler goes with Rosenberg’s plan of organisation of territories taken from USSR. Thus Germans end up creating buffer states, treating the inhabitants less harshly - and thus, the population actually supports them against the Soviets. There are no Soviet Partisans fighting the Germans, instead, Germans get fresh divisions just as they get near Moscow. USSR falls. No big war.
   
   Some of those possibilities almost happened. For example, Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact surprised many of “observant persons”.

 

[truetofaith]

This does seem unusual. I’ve not extensively read about Fatima, although I am interested in Marian Apparitions, but… it’s hard to see that God is more worried about feminine clothes than His own children killing each other.

At the time of Fatima, women were clothed from their neck down to their ankles. It was much more difficult for a man to get aroused & rape a woman, than it is now with the women eagerly displaying themselves.
The young girls have their favorite movie & TV stars leading the way.

I would say the Blessed Mother was right!

 

[ellam25]

At the time of Fatima, women were clothed from their neck down to their ankles. It was much more difficult for a man to get aroused & rape a woman, than it is now with the women eagerly displaying themselves.
The young girls have their favorite movie & TV stars leading the way.

I would say the Blessed Mother was right!

You make it sound as though a man just can’t help to rape if a woman arouses him.
While I do not think it is okay for women to dress scantily its not right either to think a woman is the only thing that leads a man to sin. Yes I know sometimes they can’t help but be aroused and this isn’t helped when women are dressed like harlots but that doesn’t mean they just lose total control of their body and its okay.

 

[KEP1983]

You make it sound as though a man just can’t help to rape if a woman arouses him.
While I do not think it is okay for women to dress scantily its not right either to think a woman is the only thing that leads a man to sin. Yes I know sometimes they can’t help but be aroused and this isn’t helped when women are dressed like harlots but that doesn’t mean they just lose total control of their body and its okay.

Jesus said He who looks upon a woman to lust after her had committed adultery already in his heart. Just the lust itself is a sin. So yes, it’s a big deal, Mary was right.

 

[truetofaith]

You make it sound as though a man just can’t help to rape if a woman arouses him.
While I do not think it is okay for women to dress scantily its not right either to think a woman is the only thing that leads a man to sin. Yes I know sometimes they can’t help but be aroused and this isn’t helped when women are dressed like harlots but that doesn’t mean they just lose total control of their body and its okay.

I didn’t say it was o.k…

I’m trying to show that the Blessed Mother knew about the greater temptations that were coming in the future. She should have mentioned the porno videos, the TV shows & even the commercials that are sexually oriented.

 

[ialsop]

She was also talking to a seven year old.

So we shouldn’t hold a grudge for not mentioning EVERYTHING(condoms, lust, rape, porno, abortion, sexual revolution, ect)

The way she said it, a child of 7 could easily understand.

 

[truetofaith]

She was also talking to a seven year old.

So we shouldn’t hold a grudge for not mentioning EVERYTHING(condoms, lust, rape, porno, abortion, sexual revolution, ect)

The way she said it, a child of 7 could easily understand.

Actually she was talking to the whole world.

 

[WT1]

I have no doubts about Fatima or Lourdes but I am not comfortable with Medjugorje due to the Church’s skepticism. But as others have said you don’t have to believe in private revelations.