For Unbelievers a Shortly World Life but Paying Everlasting Hell Punisment!

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Giving people infinite punishment for finite actions.
Why is that wrong? Does the amount of time it took to do something make it any less evil? Does the passage of time make murder any less atrocious? Our finite actions speak to our infinite nature, that is, the extent to which we embrace God. If our actions continually speak to a rejection of God, how is it unjust for God to do what we’ve spent our lives seeking (cutting off our relationship with Him).
Unjustly wiping out most of the world’s population (though I don’t know if you interpret that story literally or metaphorically)
By who’s estimation of justice? Why is your assumption of justice greater than God’s? Let me put it to you this way. Taking into account the Judeo-Christian (sp?) conception as God as the author of all life, since he created all life, it is also within his right put an end to that life. Further, in the Christian understanding of the nature of humanity, we were created so that we may be with him. If, as the Biblical story of the flood would suggest, the whole of humanity had completely rejected this purpose, and chose instead to live fully self absorbed and in complete disregard of God’s will, why would it be unjust to put an end to that society. After all, when a computer is broken you fix it, if it cannot be fixed you get rid of it.
Punishing all of humanity for the sins of two people
In this point you are operating under a flawed assumption. God is not punishing us for the sin of Adam and Eve. Rather, their sin broke something inside of them, and made it impossible for their descendants to have full communion with him. All the sin, strife and trouble of the world is derived from this rejection of God; it is not something which God forces on us. Quite the opposite of punishing us, he chose rather to suffer excruciating pains and died for us so that we may be freed from the effects of Adam and Eve’s sin. That is an action of love, not of punishment.
Don’t stare then 😛
The human eye is naturally drawn to rapidly shifting images, make it next to impossible to avoid looking at.
 
Why is that wrong?Does the amount of time it took to do something make it any less evil? Does the passage of time make murder any less atrocious? Our finite actions speak to our infinite nature, that is, the extent to which we embrace God. If our actions continually speak to a rejection of God, how is it unjust for God to do what we’ve spent our lives seeking (cutting off our relationship with Him).
The amount of time served or passed does not make the action any less wrong, but it does mean the person has paid some debt for their actions. If you murder someone you should be punished but that punishment should fit the action. The Eastern conceptions of hell are at least based on your finite actions, what you do determines how much time you will spend in it. It really does not make sense for someone to have to suffer eternal punishment for something as trivial as not accepting Jesus. You’re right though the Christian God can do whatever he pleases after all he is God, but that does not make him just.
By who’s estimation of justice?
By my estimation of justice.
Why is your assumption of justice greater than God’s?
Because logically it makes more sense.
Let me put it to you this way. Taking into account the Judeo-Christian (sp?) conception as God as the author of all life, since he created all life, it is also within his right put an end to that life. Further, in the Christian understanding of the nature of humanity, we were created so that we may be with him. If, as the Biblical story of the flood would suggest, the whole of humanity had completely rejected this purpose, and chose instead to live fully self absorbed and in complete disregard of God’s will, why would it be unjust to put an end to that society. After all, when a computer is broken you fix it, if it cannot be fixed you get rid of it.
So you mean to tell me children, babies still in the womb, the sick, and the elderly deserved to be punished as well? I find it nearly impossible for all of humanity to have forsaken God. Regardless of that though God could have found a way more suitable means for punishment. He for instance could have simultaneously caused all the evil doers to drop dead. Flooding the entire Earth not only wiped out the wicked but punished the innocent as well. The difference with your computer analogy though is the fact that it deals with human beings. The Christian God is an all powerful being; he can fix whatever.
In this point you are operating under a flawed assumption. God is not punishing us for the sin of Adam and Eve. Rather, their sin broke something inside of them, and made it impossible for their descendants to have full communion with him. All the sin, strife and trouble of the world is derived from this rejection of God; it is not something which God forces on us. Quite the opposite of punishing us, he chose rather to suffer excruciating pains and died for us so that we may be freed from the effects of Adam and Eve’s sin. That is an action of love, not of punishment.
God’s not punishing us for their actions but the whole of humanity has to bear the consequences of their deeds? We have to deal with death and sickness which didn’t exist prior to the fall, but he’s not punishing us though? The Christian God is unfairly punishing humanity for the deeds of two human beings. Your and I were not there to make the same decision as Adam and Eve so why should we have to bear the consequences? Shifting punishment to others is simply unjust.
The human eye is naturally drawn to rapidly shifting images, make it next to impossible to avoid looking at.
Idk what to say then shrugs lol
 
The amount of time served or passed does not make the action any less wrong, but it does mean the person has paid some debt for their actions. If you murder someone you should be punished but that punishment should fit the action. The Eastern conceptions of hell are at least based on your finite actions, what you do determines how much time you will spend in it. It really does not make sense for someone to have to suffer eternal punishment for something as trivial as not accepting Jesus. You’re right though the Christian God can do whatever he pleases after all he is God, but that does not make him just.
We do not believe that not believing in Jesus is what sends a person to Hell. WE are not fundamentalists. It is the rejection of Christ and God which sends a person to Hell. A lack of knowledge is distinctly different from a rejection. Murder, as an example, is a definitive statement that you have no regard for God or his will. No amount of time passing will change that declaration, only true repentance can. Since no amount of time can change that declaration, the punishment is eternal.
By my estimation of justice.
So your human, limited, conception which is completely incapable of comprehending the entirety of the flow of human history, and completely devoid of knowledge of the future results of the actions of individuals. This is a justice prone to change and subject to whim and fancy; a justice which can be influenced by whatever you happen to be feeling at the time. This is not a true justice.
Because logically it makes more sense.
It may make more sense to you, but you lack the requisite knowledge to know if it is actually just or not, as you are not omnipotent and have severe lacking in your understanding of the whole of reality, as do all created beings.
So you mean to tell me children, babies still in the womb, the sick, and the elderly deserved to be punished as well?I find it nearly impossible for all of humanity to have forsaken God. Regardless of that though God could have found a way more suitable means for punishment. He for instance could have simultaneously caused all the evil doers to drop dead. Flooding the entire Earth not only wiped out the wicked but punished the innocent as well. The difference with your computer analogy though is the fact that it deals with human beings. The Christian God is an all powerful being; he can fix whatever.
Your inability to comprehend it doesn’t make it any less true, nor does the fact that you don’t like it make it any less just. Surely there were some innocents who died (young children for example) However, he would not have forsaken those innocents to eternal torment, he would have welcomed them to Abraham’s Bosom since they were sinless (Abraham’s Bosom is the biblical name given to the place of the just dead, those who had lived in accordance with the Law, or who had sought God with pure hearts, if not pure knowledge of him). Your mistake here is assuming those children were worse off for their deaths, which doesn’t hold up in Christian theology. I would much rather be with God in eternity than alive here on Earth, as would every Christian. As for making all the evil people fall down dead, he did, in a manner he saw fit.
God’s not punishing us for their actions but the whole of humanity has to bear the consequences of their deeds? We have to deal with death and sickness which didn’t exist prior to the fall, but he’s not punishing us though? The Christian God is unfairly punishing humanity for the deeds of two human beings. Your and I were not there to make the same decision as Adam and Eve so why should we have to bear the consequences? Shifting punishment to others is simply unjust.
For starters, a lot of it deals with if you take the creation account to be literal. I do not. Death did exist prior to the fall, but only physical death. Adam and Eve introduced spiritual death to humanity, the potential to be eternally separated from God. As for sickness, I have no well thought out response, so I can’t speak to it, having never really considered it before. My apologies.

As for not making the same decision as Adam and Eve, we do, every time we sin we make the choice to put ourselves before God, and therefore are just as deserving of punishment as they were. You system would only hold true if the rest of humanity never sinned, which is decidedly -not- the case.
 
I wonder if somebody see and think any injustice for eternal Hell penalty. Although God is so merciful and graceful than how could God consent to such very grievous penalty? Myself ı have some answers:

God is eternal with all attributes and so who reject and deny God’s existence than commit an eternal crime. On the earth penalty of killing someone can be life-last imprisonment penalty. life on the world is temporal so penalty is short. But God is eternal and other world is eternal. And God gives us countless blessing but with denial we commit countless punishment.

There are some statements in Muhammed’s (peace be upon him) Hadiths that Mercy and Grace of God is for everyone so that people in Hell will suffer because of their sins. After paying for sins they will become familiar with Hell pains and will not suffer any more. But they will stay in Hell forever because of denial existence of God.

Any different thoughts? Thanks!
Eternal damnation is just story told by religious leaders to get the lay people to obey. A loving, just God would never plan or design such a thing.

Also God is not so needy that he needs anyone to believe in him. Believing in Gd just helps us endure the suffering in our temporal lives better.

Regardless, an atheist or agnostic or any other kind of non-believer has an equal chance of being ‘saved’ - which really means ultimate union with God.
 
Eternal damnation is just story told by religious leaders to get the lay people to obey. A loving, just God would never plan or design such a thing.

Also God is not so needy that he needs anyone to believe in him. Believing in Gd just helps us endure the suffering in our temporal lives better.
How do you know and who told you this? When we speak of Gods needs, He didn’t need anything, you do. He certainly had no need to create man. Or was it a perfect plan in love?

I don’t think you understand how much He loves you. Believing in God does help us endure the suffering in our temporal lives better, this is much more than a pious act though, its through this suffering in which you pass through this world, all have an expiration date and come to know humility. We are all interconnected. Regardless if the suffering is explicitly yours, its still implicitly yours. How could you be all you are to be, if you are not helping another be all they can be?
 
Idk what to say then shrugs lol
No, seriously, the images are enough to induce a headache, do you think you can put another image in it’s place (one that doesn’t shift every tenth of a second)?
 
I’d suggest you remove the images too - you could cause epilepsy in someone susceptible.
 
The amount of time served or passed does not make the action any less wrong, but it does mean the person has paid some debt for their actions. If you murder someone you should be punished but that punishment should fit the action. The Eastern conceptions of hell are at least based on your finite actions, what you do determines how much time you will spend in it. It really does not make sense for someone to have to suffer eternal punishment for something as trivial as not accepting Jesus. You’re right though the Christian God can do whatever he pleases after all he is God, but that does not make him just.

By my estimation of justice.

Because logically it makes more sense.

So you mean to tell me children, babies still in the womb, the sick, and the elderly deserved to be punished as well? I find it nearly impossible for all of humanity to have forsaken God. Regardless of that though God could have found a way more suitable means for punishment. He for instance could have simultaneously caused all the evil doers to drop dead. Flooding the entire Earth not only wiped out the wicked but punished the innocent as well. The difference with your computer analogy though is the fact that it deals with human beings. The Christian God is an all powerful being; he can fix whatever.

God’s not punishing us for their actions but the whole of humanity has to bear the consequences of their deeds? We have to deal with death and sickness which didn’t exist prior to the fall, but he’s not punishing us though? The Christian God is unfairly punishing humanity for the deeds of two human beings. Your and I were not there to make the same decision as Adam and Eve so why should we have to bear the consequences? Shifting punishment to others is simply unjust.

Idk what to say then shrugs lol
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I, too have wondered how an all merciful God could allow this to happen. Two thoughts that have helped me wrestle with this question.

First, God created us to love. To love, we must have a will that is free. So, we can choose to love God and our neighbor or not. The original sin was one of choice and resulted in significant harm to our nature.

The second…I have a friend. He lived in a big house, drove a 7 series BMW and basically had it all. Then it all came crashing down when he was accused of financial fraud. He went to prison. He was being punished for his crime. But, his children had no father while he was incarcerated. Their affluence was gone and they were forced to give up many of the material things they were accustomed to having.

Now, tell me, why should the children have to pay for their father’s crime. They were not being punished. They were just victims of the consequences resulting from the faults of another.
 
I wonder if somebody see and think any injustice for eternal Hell penalty. Although God is so merciful and graceful than how could God consent to such very grievous penalty? Myself ı have some answers:

God is eternal with all attributes and so who reject and deny God’s existence than commit an eternal crime. On the earth penalty of killing someone can be life-last imprisonment penalty. life on the world is temporal so penalty is short. But God is eternal and other world is eternal. And God gives us countless blessing but with denial we commit countless punishment.

There are some statements in Muhammed’s (peace be upon him) Hadiths that Mercy and Grace of God is for everyone so that people in Hell will suffer because of their sins. After paying for sins they will become familiar with Hell pains and will not suffer any more. But they will stay in Hell forever because of denial existence of God.

Any different thoughts? Thanks!
I think most unbelievers will be able to count on God’s grace to get them through as they turn to him at the end of their lives. I suspect we would be surprised to find out how many people turn to Jesus right before they die unbeknownst to us. That’s why we are always wise to pray for those who are dying.
 
We do not believe that not believing in Jesus is what sends a person to Hell. WE are not fundamentalists. It is the rejection of Christ and God which sends a person to Hell. A lack of knowledge is distinctly different from a rejection. Murder, as an example, is a definitive statement that you have no regard for God or his will. No amount of time passing will change that declaration, only true repentance can. Since no amount of time can change that declaration, the punishment is eternal.
But if you don’t accept Jesus then you will end up in hell and by that logic it’s essentially the same exact thing. I’m not in agreement with your statement about murder. No amount of time passing will change that declaration but punishing someone eternally is supposed to do what exactly? How can you repent of murder if you’re burning in hell forever?
So your human, limited, conception which is completely incapable of comprehending the entirety of the flow of human history, and completely devoid of knowledge of the future results of the actions of individuals. This is a justice prone to change and subject to whim and fancy; a justice which can be influenced by whatever you happen to be feeling at the time. This is not a true justice.
Yep. Even with all of the things you’ve just listed the Christian God has demonstrated time and time again in the Bible that he cannot administer “true justice”
It may make more sense to you, but you lack the requisite knowledge to know if it is actually just or not, as you are not omnipotent and have severe lacking in your understanding of the whole of reality, as do all created beings.
The Christian God supposedly has all those capabilities but yet still fails to make just decisions; I’ll take my understanding over his.
Your inability to comprehend it doesn’t make it any less true, nor does the fact that you don’t like it make it any less just. Surely there were some innocents who died (young children for example) However, he would not have forsaken those innocents to eternal torment, he would have welcomed them to Abraham’s Bosom since they were sinless (Abraham’s Bosom is the biblical name given to the place of the just dead, those who had lived in accordance with the Law, or who had sought God with pure hearts, if not pure knowledge of him). Your mistake here is assuming those children were worse off for their deaths, which doesn’t hold up in Christian theology. I would much rather be with God in eternity than alive here on Earth, as would every Christian. As for making all the evil people fall down dead, he did, in a manner he saw fit.
The conclusion I’m drawing from this is that it was OK for the Christian God to take the lives of innocent people because he sent them to a better place. If the Christian God knew that they were going to be better off with him in heaven why create them in the first place only to kill them for something they had yet to do? The Christian God having foreknowledge of everything basically created these children to die.
For starters, a lot of it deals with if you take the creation account to be literal. I do not. Death did exist prior to the fall, but only physical death. Adam and Eve introduced spiritual death to humanity, the potential to be eternally separated from God. As for sickness, I have no well thought out response, so I can’t speak to it, having never really considered it before. My apologies.
I’m going to assume then that the Catholic understanding of God’s warning about death was a spiritual one. Regardless of that, the spiritual death has still lead to a physical death for people who were uninvolved in the Garden. As for the sickness question; it’s cool.
As for not making the same decision as Adam and Eve, we do, every time we sin we make the choice to put ourselves before God, and therefore are just as deserving of punishment as they were.
How am I deserving of the same punishment when I did not do what Adam and Eve did?

Was I the one who brought spiritual death into the world? No

Was I the one who allowed sin to be brought into humanity? No

So why then should I suffer as a by product of their actions? If they wouldn’t have eaten from the tree in the first place none of this would have been possible.
You system would only hold true if the rest of humanity never sinned, which is decidedly -not- the case.
What is your explanation of babies then? Babies have never sinned but must deal with the consequences of someone else’s actions.
 
I’d suggest you remove the images too - you could cause epilepsy in someone susceptible.
No, seriously, the images are enough to induce a headache, do you think you can put another image in it’s place (one that doesn’t shift every tenth of a second)?
I changed it :o
I think the speed of those flashing images are meant to represent hell; however, they are NOT eternal.
It’s not supposed to represent hell lol. It was a gif of Mother Kali in some of her more fearsome manifestations.
 
How does this negate or avoid the position that they cast themselves into Hell?
Read how Jesus Himself describes their fate in the Scripture quoted in the catechism reference and tell me how the two positions can be reconciled.
 
Read how Jesus Himself describes their fate in the Scripture quoted in the catechism reference and tell me how the two positions can be reconciled.
Sorry, I am not familiar with these words of Jesus. Can you repeat them here for our benefit?

Thanks.
 
Sorry, I am not familiar with these words of Jesus. Can you repeat them here for our benefit?

Thanks.
I’m glad to. In the Gospel of St. Matthew 13: 40-42, Jesus solemnly proclaims: “Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.” There are plenty of other places where the imagery of being cast into Hell, or fire, or “outer darkness” is invoked (cf. Mt. 25: 30, 41; Lk 3: 9, 17; 12:5; 13: 27-28). Nowhere do you see the damned willingly marching into Hell of their own accord. Blessings, ~Br. Carlo~
 
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