Free will is an illusion because we are rational being

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Bahman

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Decision is defined as ability to choose in a situation. Situation is defined as a set of available options. We as rational being prioritize options and define situation. We then decide.

Free will is defined as ability to decide freely in a situation. As you can see there is no room left for free will when our decisions are rational. One can argue that we can make irrational decision to show that we are free but this just change our privatization hence we are still making a rational decision again.
 
I meant prioritization rather than privatization in OP. I am so sorry for mistype.
 
Bahman said:
No, we are not free because that is the only tool we have for making decision after the options are prioritized.
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Is it alright if you express your argument as a syllogism? 🙂

(I don’t want to misrepresent your argument).

Cheers!
 
littlestsouls2 said:
Is it alright if you express your argument as a syllogism? 🙂

(I don’t want to misrepresent your argument).

Cheers!
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Sure.
  1. Free will is ability to freely decide in a given situation
  2. A situation is defined as a set of prioritized options
  3. We prioritize our options using our rationality
  4. We pick up the best option among prioritized options, so called rational decision making
  5. From (2), (3) and (4) we can deduce that we have not any freedom in our decisions making
  6. From (1) and (5) we can deduce that free will is an illusion
 
Bahman said:
Sure.
  1. Free will is ability to freely decide in a given situation
  2. A situation is defined as a set of prioritized options
  3. We prioritize our options using our rationality
  4. We pick up the best option among prioritized options, so called rational decision making
  5. From (2), (3) and (4) we can deduce that we have not any freedom in our decisions making
  6. From (1) and (5) we can deduce that free will is an illusion
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Don’t we have the freedom to choose the prioritized options that make the most sense to each of us, which may vary for different people? You are assuming that every person has the same needs, preferences, options, environment, and that each of us thinks exactly the same way within the normal range of thought. However, there are individual differences in thinking, while, at the same time, most people take economical shortcuts in their thought process. And there are also several important influences on people’s thought processes, including their family upbringing, moral values, gender, culture, prior experiences, individual personality, intuitions, imagination, and creativity.
 
Bahman said:
Decision is defined as ability to choose in a situation. Situation is defined as a set of available options. We as rational being prioritize options and define situation. We then decide.

Free will is defined as ability to decide freely in a situation. As you can see there is no room left for free will when our decisions are rational. One can argue that we can make irrational decision to show that we are free but this just change our privatization hence we are still making a rational decision again.
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Just a second, Bahman: How do you “prioritize” rationally? (I didn’t want to say “using your rationality”, but if I did, I would have asked you if you are free to “use your rationality”)
 
Bahman said:
Decision is defined as ability to choose in a situation. Situation is defined as a set of available options. We as rational being prioritize options and define situation. We then decide.

Free will is defined as ability to decide freely in a situation. As you can see there is no room left for free will when our decisions are rational. One can argue that we can make irrational decision to show that we are free but this just change our privatization hence we are still making a rational decision again.
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It is possible to choose something that does not make sense.
 
Ive always believed it cannot be true free will, as there are punishments for making the ‘wrong’ choice, with true free will, there would be no wrong choices, as long as your choice did not conflict with anothers and/or cause harm to another.

We are told we have free will as a gift, but if you dont choose ‘right’ we suffer eternally for it, Im not sure what the name for this would be, but definitely not free will.
 
mikekle said:
Ive always believed it cannot be true free will, as there are punishments for making the ‘wrong’ choice, with true free will, there would be no wrong choices, as long as your choice did not conflict with anothers and/or cause harm to another.

We are told we have free will as a gift, but if you dont choose ‘right’ we suffer eternally for it, Im not sure what the name for this would be, but definitely not free will.
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Why should our having free will mean there are no consequences or only good consequences for our choices?
 
St Paul in the Bible says:
“Why is it the good I would do, that I do not,
And the sin I would avoid, that I do.”

Jesus own words in the Bible:
“Amen, truly and sincerely and solemnly I tell you,
He who sins is a slave to sin.”
(gamblers, drug addicts, alcoholics, Pornography addicts,)
Sinners are NOT free,

Jesus says in the Bible:
“I have come to set the captives free,”
“The Prince of this world has been overthrown,” (satan)

On the extreme end of the battle between freedom to choose good,:
Jesus had to spend much of His ministry casting out demons from possessed people that were being completely controlled by evil spirits.
 
I think this is a case of over-thinking. It is what it is. When you die you can ask God why he gave us free will.
 
Bahman said:
Decision is defined as ability to choose in a situation. Situation is defined as a set of available options. We as rational being prioritize options and define situation. We then decide.

Free will is defined as ability to decide freely in a situation. As you can see there is no room left for free will when our decisions are rational. One can argue that we can make irrational decision to show that we are free but this just change our privatization hence we are still making a rational decision again.
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Is the gambler addict, drug addict, alcoholic, and all other disordered addictions free? Are.they rational? Especially when the victims know.they are destroying their lives through these.sinful things.

Jesus said: “Anyone who sins, is a slave to sin.”
 
Your statement is contradictory. Free Will can’t be an illusion if we are rational beings. Please start using some better arguments to defend your philosophy because they aren’t very good
 
meltzerboy said:
Don’t we have the freedom to choose the prioritized options that make the most sense to each of us, which may vary for different people? You are assuming that every person has the same needs, preferences, options, environment, and that each of us thinks exactly the same way within the normal range of thought. However, there are individual differences in thinking, while, at the same time, most people take economical shortcuts in their thought process. And there are also several important influences on people’s thought processes, including their family upbringing, moral values, gender, culture, prior experiences, individual personality, intuitions, imagination, and creativity.
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Different individual could have different prioritized options depending on their personalities even if options are similar yet they still use their rationalities to find their prioritized options.
 
Free-will is to a great extent a mirage, but to the extent we **think **we are free, we are called to make use of that freedom.

ICXC NIKA
 
JuanFlorencio said:
Just a second, Bahman: How do you “prioritize” rationally?
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Any situation is defined by a set of options. Our personalities have important role in defining options. We however as rational agents give different weight to our options. This lead us to a prioritized options which we rationally pick up the best option from it.
JuanFlorencio said:
(I didn’t want to say “using your rationality”, but if I did, I would have asked you if you are free to “use your rationality”)
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I naturally use my rationality to make a decision unless I believe in free will and my freedom (which is fake) is challenged.
 
mikekle said:
Ive always believed it cannot be true free will, as there are punishments for making the ‘wrong’ choice, with true free will, there would be no wrong choices, as long as your choice did not conflict with anothers and/or cause harm to another.

We are told we have free will as a gift, but if you dont choose ‘right’ we suffer eternally for it, Im not sure what the name for this would be, but definitely not free will.
Click to expand...
👍
 
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