Fulfilling the law?

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ZenFred

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Hello,

I’ve begun a brief study of modern orthodox Judiasm. I’ve noticed that the orthodox approach to the Mosaic law doesn’t match up with how the law is described by St. Paul nor by Christain theology.
  1. How has orthodoxy Judiasm’s adherence to the law changed since 0 AD?
  2. What do you mean when you say Jesus fulfilled the law? What was wrong with the law and how is it broken? I would expect the answer is that we are unable to live each rule faithful due to sin, yet according to Orthodox Jews this doesn’t seem to be neccesary. There is an allowance for sincere repentance and forgiveness under the law. It’s not like if you forget to say a blessing you are damned now.
Thanks for helping me understand
-Fred
 
ZenFred said:
. . . the orthodox approach to the Mosaic law doesn’t match up with how the law is described by St. Paul nor by Christain theology. …
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Hi ZenFred,

Could you define what you mean by “orthodox”? Are you referring to the religion of the Old Testament, or to what people today generally mean by “Orthodox Judaism” (as opposed to Reform, Conservative, etc), or … ? Could you cite some examples of how this differs from Christianity in its understanding of the Law?
 
Galatians might help you find your answer…its a short read, only 6 chapters…you can knock it down in about half an hour.

Look for Paul’s words on Faith and Law.

He has a great verse in there that says the Law was to guide us until the incarnation, death, and resurrection of our Lord. But after the Salvation Plan was fully revealed, it was apparent that merely adhering to the Law without belief in Jesus (faith), does not provide the hope for our salvation.

If we act on our faith in Christ, we have by default kept the Law, but without Christ, the law had not been fulfilled. The Law has been fulfilled through Him, not replaced by Him.

PEACE AND ALL GOOD!
 
Neofight,

Galatians 6 is a very good example of Paul’s views on the law, thanks. So 6:13 days “Not even those who are circumcised keep the law.” But the law allows repentance for falling short, doesn’t it? So then the Jews are both not following the law NOR are they repentant?

Maybe the claim is that there is a uncrossable chasm of sin between us and God and only Christ can be our bridge. I’ve heard that view before, maybe Billy Graham. That would mean that the Orthodox Jew (and by extension the reform and conservative who stress following the moral law over ritual law) is on a spiritual/religious vehicle that won’t get them to their goal of righteousness and communion with G-d. Yet (assuming you are right) they are in delusion and cannot appreciate that without accepting the gospel

I guess I just don’t see the total depravity (as Calvin would say) of the individual as matching experience in life or in meditative practice. I do acknowledge the rampant sinfulness, delusion, and bondage in societal systems but the not individuals quest for G-d.

Thanks…
 
Hi ZenFred,
Have you ever heard/been told of something called the increasing demands of the Law?
For what it means to me: the law gets increasingly complex and difficult to fulfill/follow. You can understand this to mean that what was legal yesterday becomes illegal tomorrow; and vice versa. This is especially true when politics gets involved. What is not supposed to change is principles. Jesus did nothing wrong, but yet he was put to death by a number of colluding people. What principle of law allowed that?

I think Jesus fulfilled the demands of the law because ultimately the law can become so stifling to human freedom that only an inner disposition of love can help a person fulfill all its requirements. What the law really tends towards is a demand of blood for every infraction. Jesus gave the law all of his innocent blood.

I also think the ten commandments were the basis of justification of so much legal change, and that the changes themselves being made were threatening the very foundation of the law, those commandments.
The commandments are supposed to be permanent. Even though much has been done in the name of Jesus that he wouldn’t approve of, he himself yet still preserved the law forever in the name of God. Now the commandments are written in the heart by the example of love he gave, and can be followed by love.
We don’t really know, but if the law had been allowed to exact its demands increasingly, then people everywhere would have grown to revile their creator.
One of the sayings of Jesus I think of often on this topic is:
“The Sabbath for man. Not man for the Sabbath.”
 
Michael,

Okay, there is a big difference between how Jesus talked about the law and how Paul did. What I think you are getting at is that Jesus tried to point to the intention/heart of the law. A clear example of this is where he gives the two great commandments and says on those rests ALL the law and the prophets. I also agree that human nature tends to embellish religion over time to be more institutionalized and exclusive. I am no expert at the Mosaic law though and want to avoid blasphemy so I refrain from making any criticism.

Thanks for answering my question everyone, it was helpful.
 
Adam and Eve basically had 1 law: Don’t eat one fruit.

After the fall there was the natural law: don’t kill your brother common sense… plus by default all worshipped God already etc…

Later people kept messing up and became different groups … God chose the Israelites to reinsitute how he wanted things.

So in comes Moses and the law. To ensure the guidance of this group carrying out things more similar to Cain and Abel days but without screwing up as much.

So eventually comes Jesus and clarifies things and creates the need for Evangelism and bring the mass of the world up to speed eventually, to again reel them in.

The best way to think of it is human law.

We start with minimum law

Say you vreak a law: you get on probation… now you have more laws

You break those you go to jail… even more laws.

You get out of jail - probation less laws but more than most.

Off probabtion - almost back to original law but with a record and maybe cant vote etc…
Basically ideally we want to go back to one law ie: don’t eat a fruit…

But we suck so we have varying forms of probation etc…
 
ZenFred,
Neither did I intend to speak out against or blaspheme Mosaic law.
Jesus I think would never have fulfilled the promise of the law if it wasn’t
a good thing. The prophets saw I think that a Messiah was coming and needed.
Paul puts a framework around the meaning inherent in the coming of the Messiah.
However, it is Jesus who is the Messiah, and who fulfills the promise of the
Messiah – which was to give a Way in which a person could live in peace on
Earth and not offend God.
Best to you and if you are getting back to your Judaism,
blessed Passover.
 
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