Gap between Church and Faith?

[4HisChurch]

This article asks if there is a gap between the Faith and the Church. It says that, although for Catholics, faith and the Church are seen as inseparable, in light of the clergy abuse cases, there are some who are saying that the faith and the Church are different.

I think this is a tempting point of view, and there must be some way in which to separate the less than stellar goings on in the Church that occurs from time to time from the Church that Jesus promised to protect from the Gates of Hell.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

The article raises an interesting point, but frankly I think the faith of the Church is in her teachings. The works of the Church, now those are another matter and I think the rightful place to question her.

The Church does not need to “prove” her faith in the way that an individual would according to NT teaching. The Church has the correct faith because she is the guardian and keeper of the teachings. She would never teach that pedophilia is OK, but she practiced it. So what is a parishioner to do? For starters, isolate what we see leaders in the Church teachings and what we see them doing. We can, if we must, view them as Jesus viewed the Pharisees but Jesus said to do what they say and not what they do. That means if you think the Church leaders do evil things, then just don’t be like them – but still listen to their teachings.

With the Internet and other communications available, plus the Catechism, we have tools that the rank-and-file Catholic never had in history to be able to ferret out those who teach contrary to the Lord, and for us to compare what we are taught so that the renegade or ill-formed Church official will teach it right.

I think Jesus made it clear that the Church authorities were to be listened to and obeyed even though they were constantly a target of his charges of hypocracy. Those are like two sides a coin; the priestly ministry where those in charge see that things are run properly, and the prophetic ministry where they call those in charge hypocrites when they enforce laws they don’t themselves obey and question whether people actually mean what they profess. Modern clergy have to play both roles, as well as tend to many worldly issues so again, when one wants to know the faith, the best idea is not to try to “be like” any Church officials, but to heed their teachings as if they were from God himself. Meanwhile, we need to be clever enough to use our resources to the extent we can to make sure that heresy is exposed and challenged.

Alan

 

[Mike_D30]

I think the Church and the faith are inseperable, for better or worse.

I’ve had an incredibly difficult time with the Church abuse cases. I still reel from it, and it times I do think that perhaps the Church has gone astray. How can there be such filth and on such a scale that it was, in God’s Church?

“The clergy sex abuse scandal has seriously and adversely affected Catholics’ views of the clergy and their leadership”

I unfortunately agree hole-heartedly with this sentiment. I don’t look at clergy members like I once did, with confidence and reverence, but suspicion. I will never allow my son to be alone with any members of the clergy, nor will he be an altar boy. And I think that is just sad. But for some reason predators have chosen vocations as a means of attacking children, and Bishops have allowed it to happen, which has caused heartbreaking results, I as a parent have a responsibility to be cognizant of that first and foremost.

My diocese was affected by these scandals, I’m relatively new to the Parish, but from talking to some fellow parishoners, they lost over 1/3 of their parishoners for good (some leaving the Church itself for good). Offerings are down nearly 200%.

I agree with the article that I was ashamed and embarassed as a Catholic by these scandals.

"The net effect is that the scandal opened up a gap between Catholics’ faith (which seems unaffected by recent events) and their confidence in the Church (which has been severely shaken).

I don’t agree with this, if you lose faith in the Church itself, you lose your faith as a Catholic. The Church is too central to our faith.

 

[Alison]

But think about it this way: we are embarassed about the scandals, but what scandals have we, ourselves, caused within the church because of our own sins? We are in no way perfect; so, therefore we have in many ways, contributed to scandal. Then is it fair to say that the faith and the Church are separate and different? Not so. The Church is composed of saints and sinners as Saint Augustine once said; but the Church instituted by Christ will always be perfect, divine and holy, though its members may not be perfect. The Church was instituted by Christ to proclaim the Faith that is very much a part of the Church.

 

[4HisChurch]

The works of the Church, now those are another matter and I think the rightful place to question her.

Alan, I think this sums it up nicely! The Faith of the Church has not changed and is not going to change. The works of the church (or some representing her) are what we mourn over. Very good insite!

Mike, I, like you, do not look at clergy the same way. I think I will always “wonder” about a clergyman now. Heck, there are times when I think I would “wonder” about almost anyone now! I did allow my son to be an altar boy, but I respect your decision. Its a very difficult decision to make these days.

But for some reason predators have chosen vocations as a means of attacking children

I really think that the Ultimate Preditor, Satan, is the one who has chosen vocations as a means to attack children. The affect is to have many leave the church in disgust, which many have done. The rest have to struggle with issues of obedience when they find it difficult to trust clergy.

But, you are right, Alison, when you say,

The Church was instituted by Christ to proclaim the Faith that is very much a part of the Church.

We are following the Church that Christ instituted and the Faith that remains unchanged.