God can suspend his attributes?

[laocmo]

Have read in this group a couple of opinions that although God is immutable and impassible as defined by the Church:

Immutable = Immutable objects are simply objects whose state cannot change
Impassible = does not experience pain or pleasure from the actions of another being

That he can suspend these attributes at will and thereby change his mind or experience anger, sorrow, etc. at the actions of others. Now it seems if he can do that he no longer is immutable and impassible. Then, since we do not know his present state of mind, we have no right to claim those attributes even exist. This is very confusing. It makes God into some kind of magic wizard who can do anything whether or not it violates logic. I think people who believe this would believe he could make a square circle, or make 1 plus 3 equal 5. Any opinions on this opinion?

 

[ffg]

It seems you are saying that pain or pleasure come about through emotion (anger or sadness used).

Emotion is an effect, not a cause. (xxxxxxx makes me angry, xxxxx makes me sad)

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Have read in this group a couple of opinions that although God is immutable and impassible as defined by the Church:

Immutable = Immutable objects are simply objects whose state cannot change
Impassible = does not experience pain or pleasure from the actions of another being

That he can suspend these attributes at will and thereby change his mind or experience anger, sorrow, etc. at the actions of others. Now it seems if he can do that he no longer is immutable and impassible. Then, since we do not know his present state of mind, we have no right to claim those attributes even exist. This is very confusing. It makes God into some kind of magic wizard who can do anything whether or not it violates logic. I think people who believe this would believe he could make a square circle, or make 1 plus 3 equal 5. Any opinions on this opinion?

There’s something very important to keep in mind when reading the Bible, especially the OT. It is limited by human language.

God is so far beyond description that no matter what words we use to describe Him, they will be lacking. In the OT, when reference is made to God changing his mind or becoming “enraged,” it is the author’s attempt to express a reality which is inexpressible. God does not experience emotions as we understand them. He doesn’t get “angry” in the sense we use the word, but rather there is a constant righteous judgement against sin. This justice exists alongside His mercy, but from our perspective we do not actively experience both of these things at once. When He is bringing the Jews out of Egypt they were experiencing His mercy. When the Jews rejected Him and made the golden calf, they experience His wrath. There was no change in God, no increase in anger or decrease in mercy, but because our experience of God and his attributes is limited and incomplete, we can only understand this apparent transition under through the concept of “change.”

I hope this makes sense… It’s a really hard concept for me to warp my head around, which makes it even harder to explain.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Without any one of his attributes, he would no longer be God, and thus there would be no God at all. But it is inconceivable that this should happen, for the reasons you gave. Also because one of God’s attributes is simplicity, which means he has no parts. His attributes are really just points of reference for us: in reality they are one and the same.

 

[BobCatholic]

If God can suspend any of his attributes, he never had them in the first place.

Thus how can he suspend any of his attributes if he doesn’t really have them?

This is a logical contradiction.

 

[laocmo]

If God can suspend any of his attributes, he never had them in the first place.

Thus how can he suspend any of his attributes if he doesn’t really have them?

This is a logical contradiction.

My feelings exactly. But apparently some believe he can. That is how they say he feels anger at things, like women’s immodest clothing styles, as mentioned by the apparition at Fatima.

 

[ffg]

My feelings exactly. But apparently some believe he can. That is how they say he feels anger at things, like women’s immodest clothing styles, as mentioned by the apparition at Fatima.

It seems there would have to be some kind of motivator for the cause.

The only thing I can think of is if someone is forced into wearing something immodest and they are concerned with the reaction from God.

In such a case - the ‘force’ would be the problem.

If it’s just a matter of preference, there are a lot of things everyone would prefer to do or have, which if we give in to - is sinful.

Perhaps you could elaborate on why the topic is so important for you.

Take care,

Mike