Hearing the canon in the Divine Liturgy

[Andreas_Hofer]

One of the issues that sometimes comes to the fore in Latin liturgical ‘debates’ is the merit of changing the canon during the Roman anaphora from an inaudible (sotto voce) prayer of the priest to an audible one for the entire congregation to hear. My memory of the two Divine Liturgies I’ve been to is that they flow somewhat like a sung Tridentine Mass in which the priest continues offering his prayers while the choir is singing the principal liturgical texts (for Latins, the Kyrie, Credo, Sanctus, etc.). What I could not remember, however, is if the similarity also applied in the case of the inaudible canon.

Could you Easterners here (and hopefully that means not just Byzantines but also Copts, Maronites, Armenians, et al.) indulge an ignorant Latin and explain this point in the Liturgy? Can the congregation see the action on the altar? Can they clearly hear the words of the priest (is it important that they hear the words)?

Thanks for any help,
Andreas

 

[Apotheoun]

Andreas Hofer:

. . .]

Could you Easterners here (and hopefully that means not just Byzantines but also Copts, Maronites, Armenians, et al.) indulge an ignorant Latin and explain this point in the Liturgy? Can the congregation see the action on the altar? Can they clearly hear the words of the priest (is it important that they hear the words)?

Thanks for any help,
Andreas

I’m a Ruthenian Catholic, and based upon my own experience of the liturgies at the Churches I have attended, there are certain prayers that are said in a low voice by the priest, and at times the congregation is singing as the priest recites his prayers. One place that I know this happens is during the prayers of verse and response at the beginning of the anaphora, because while the people are singing their final response (It is proper and just to worship the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Trinity, one in substance and undivided), the priest continues to pray the preface before the Seraphic hymn.

As far as seeing the action on the altar is concerned, that is not the focus of the congregation, both because the iconostasis is the focus, and because the priest faces East with the people, and so he “blocks” (for lack of a better word) the action on the altar from view.

In addition, I believe that the royal doors of the iconostasis (with a curtain as well) should be closed during the anaphora, although sadly this is not done in the Ruthenian Churches I have attended. As far as your question about hearing the words of the priest is concerned, I have on occasion heard the priest chanting the anaphora, but I do not think that the priest was making any real effort in that direction, it just happens at times. I tend to hear the words of the epiclesis, but not necessarily other parts of the prayer, but this may vary from parish to parish.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Apotheoun:

I’m a Ruthenian Catholic, and based upon my own experience of the liturgies at the Churches I have attended, there are certain prayers that are said in a low voice by the priest, and at times the congregation is singing as the priest recites his prayers. One place that I know this happens is during the prayers of verse and response at the beginning of the anaphora, because while the people are singing their final response (It is proper and just to worship the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Trinity, one in substance and undivided), the priest continues to pray the preface before the Seraphic hymn.

As far as seeing the action on the altar is concerned, that is not the focus of the congregation, both because the iconostasis is the focus, and because the priest faces East with the people, and so he “blocks” (for lack of a better word) the action on the altar from view.

In addition, I believe that the royal doors of the iconostasis (with a curtain as well) should be closed during the anaphora, although sadly this is not done in the Ruthenian Churches I have attended. As far as your question about hearing the words of the priest is concerned, I have on occasion heard the priest chanting the anaphora, but I do not think that the priest was making any real effort in that direction, it just happens at times. I tend to hear the words of the epiclesis, but not necessarily other parts of the prayer, but this may vary from parish to parish.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. My question about seeing the action revolved mainly around my suspicion that the royal doors should be closed at the point.

Some Catholics argue that the canon is too important a moment for the congregation to not hear (and understand perfectly) what the priest is saying. While I can see some merit to this position, I’ve also seen other arguments in favor of a silent canon based on acknowledging and preserving the utmost sacredness of the moment that I think hold weight, though, so I figured I’d try to learn from Eastern sensibilities on the subject.

Given that the liturgical action of the priest is at this point not necessarily seen or hear, how do you in the Byzantine rite unite yourselves to the prayers of the priest? Are hand missals used so that you follow his prayers anyway? Does the congregation sing or pray something else together while this occurs? Do you simply personally and silently unite yourself to the prayer of the liturgy?

 

[Manofvirtue]

It was me getting kids!

……………………,-~’’’¯¯¯’’~-,
…………………,-‘’ ; ; ;,—,_ ; ;’’-,………………………………,—,
……………….,’ ; ; ;,-‘ , , , , , ‘-, ; ;’-,—’’’’’’~–,……,-~’’ ; ; ; ;;’-,
……………….| ; ; ;,’ , , , ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯’’~’-, ,-~’’ , , ‘, ;’,
……………….’, ; ; ‘-, ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-, , , , , ,’ ; |
…………………’, ; ;,’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, , ,-‘ ;,-‘
………………….,’-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-‘ ;,-‘
…………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,’
………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’¯: : ’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; _ ; ; ; ; ;’,
………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;| : : : : : ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’¯: ¯’’-, ; ; ;’,
…………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,: : ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | : : : : : ; ; ; |
……………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, : :,-‘ ; ; ; ;|
……………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-~’’ , , , , ,--, , , , _ ; ; ;¯¯ ; ; ; ; ;|
……………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ , , , , , , ,( : : : : ) , , , ,’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
……….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’, , , , , , , , ,’~—~’’ , , , , , ,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
…….,-‘’ ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’~-,–~~’’’¯’’’~-, , ,,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,-‘’-~’’,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; | . . . . . . ,’; ,’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ‘-,
……….,’ ; ;,-, ; ;, ; ; ;, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ;’, . . . . .,’ ;,’ ; ; ; ;, ; ; ;,’-, ; ;,’ ‘’~–‘’’
………,’-~’ ,-‘-~’’ ‘, ,-‘ ‘, ,- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ‘~-,-‘’ ; ,’ ; ; ; ; ‘, ;,-‘’ ; ‘, ,-‘,
……….,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ‘’ ; ; ;’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’-,_ ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ;’-‘’ ; ; ; ‘’ ; ;’-,
………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;¯¯’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-,
……,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,
……,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|…’-, ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’,-~’ ; ; ; ; ; ,’
…,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’~-,–’’’’’’~-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-
…| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’….’, ; ; ; ; _,-‘’
….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’’¯
……’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’’~-, ; ; ; ; ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ;¯¯’’’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ~-,__ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘….’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
…………,’ ‘- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’……….’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
……….,’ ; ;’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘…………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’…………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘………………………’’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…………………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’
………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’…………………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’’
………| ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……………………….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,_ , ; , ;,’……………………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,’,¯,’,’’|……………………….| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘–,
………….¯…’’…………………………’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~,
……………………………………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~-,
…………………………………………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ,_ ; ;’-,’’-,
……………………………………………………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,__,\–\.
……………………………………………………’-, ; ; ;,-~’’’ \ , ,|, |
………………………………………………………’’~-‘’_ , , ,’,_/–‘