Help with explaining Baptism

[JGravel]

Hi Everyone!
As you can see, I havent been here very long but I think I’m hooked. I have learned alot over the past week alone.
My soon to be x-brother-in-law is on the verge of conversion. (He is in alot of pain from a divorce that seems to be unavoidable)
I’m in a tough place because he makes comments to me that I can’t back up. (Sound familiar)
I believe if God wants to use me to get through to him, he will but I feel somewhat unworthy of the challenge. He was a cradle Catholic but has since left the church (sometime as a teen) His Uncle wrote the book “A Press Conference with God” (I think). It’s an athiest’s view on life in General. Hated it… He loved it.
Now you know what I am dealing with.
Anyway, as stated above he is in alot of pain and he actually came to Church yesterday because he said he’s tried everything else so “why not try this.”
His first child was born out of wed-lock and a priest refused to Baptise her. This was nine years ago and he is still holding a grudge. He’s pissed off at the whole church and says he will never come back because he does not agree with the teachings. When asked what teachings he does not agree with, he always goes back to the Baptism of his little girl (She was baptized in a protetant church)
He says its bull---- that his daughter would go to hell if she wasn’t Baptised and that it would be the Catholic Churches fault if that were true at all because a Catholic Priest denied her Baptism.
What do I say to that?

 

[NotWorthy]

His little girl could not be baptized because there was no one to raise the child as a Catholic. If so, then she needs to wait until she is of the age of reason to decide to become baptized.

I believe the Catholic Church teaches that his daughter’s soul is in more jeopardy as a baptized but un-churched person than as a non-baptized person.

I think you have two signs of hope from your ex-brother in law:
a) He went to a church that he swore he would never walk into again. It sounds like he’s having second thoughts.
b) He’s given up on everything else. Sometimes we need to realize that we can’t solve our own problems, and that we must turn to God to help us. This is why you see so many conversions only after someone has hit rock bottom in their life.

Notworthy

 

[JGravel]

Wow that was a fast response.
Thank you.
They were cafeteria Catholics and were prepared to ask other cafeteria Catholics to be God parents. I see it all the time. People that you never see at church then all of a sudden apear for a Baptism, never to be seen again. Maybe they were just visiting from another Parish. ???
I’m just being (Pardon the expression) a devils advocate here but his response would be that they were Catholic.

 

[JGravel]

NotWorthy:

His little girl could not be baptized because there was no one to raise the child as a Catholic. If so, then she needs to wait until she is of the age of reason to decide to become baptized.

I believe the Catholic Church teaches that his daughter’s soul is in more jeopardy as a baptized but un-churched person than as a non-baptized person.

OK, Had to read it twice. I see what you mean.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

if the daughter is upset this is a great sign, because she has desire to be baptised, I would explain this to her why she was not allowed, but through her own desire to be the Church recognizes that and so does God, i would also explain that to your ex brother in law.

Sometimes we do not agree with or get discouraged by the Church’s teaching on certain issues, we should all examine why we are upset, I like to reflect on that verse in the bible that the road to heaven is not an easy one, any church that promises a wide road with big gates is not the right message.

Pray and question the Church, this site for everything you have a hrad time with, and remember God is patient but persistent and he will not allow you to slip away as long as you keep your walk of faith with him, and it is not easy.

 

[NotWorthy]

"Lord I believe, help me in my unbelief"!!! (Mark 9:24) As Catholics, we should look at any teaching that is hard to believe, and study why the Catholic Church teaches it.

Notworthy

 

[puzzleannie]

I would, without knowing anything more than what you have shared, venture to suggest that this child in question was not denied baptism, but that the pastor suggested delaying baptism because he had not assurance whatever that the parents intended to raise the child Catholic. Certainly if the attitude your brother takes now was communicated to that priest, that is the judgement many priests would make. He certainly proved the priest right.

Anyway, that is your brothers excuse, not his reason. Very likely he was aware of the problems that led to the situation in the first place, aware of his responsibilities and possibly of guilt for any sin involved (we don’t judge) yet chose to ignore that responsiblity and sought ways to justify his actions.

In working with a family member my best advice is to first read Search and Rescue by Patrick Madrid before you proceed further, because you can do a lot of damage if you go about this the wrong way.

 

[JGravel]

puzzleannie:

I would, without knowing anything more than what you have shared, venture to suggest that this child in question was not denied baptism, but that the pastor suggested delaying baptism because he had not assurance whatever that the parents intended to raise the child Catholic. Certainly if the attitude your brother takes now was communicated to that priest, that is the judgement many priests would make. He certainly proved the priest right.
.

Ya but, (from the Catechism)
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. **All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.**Would the priest be be wrong or right in delaying the Baptism because of the parents intentions or atitudes?

By the way, I found this after I wrote the original question.

 

[Fidelis]

JGravel:

Ya but, (from the Catechism)
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. **All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.**Would the priest be be wrong or right in delaying the Baptism because of the parents intentions or atitudes?

By the way, I found this after I wrote the original question.

The answer is still that the priest was right. The statement in the Catechism presupposes believing parents.