Heterdox Teachings in Catholic Schools

[Vanus_Empty]

First off, I don’t know whether this belongs in the Water Cooler, but I am just asking for advice.

I need help. I am a college freshman. My brother goes to a Catholic high school. I myself go to a Catholic university, even though it is just Catholic by heritage. It has completely succumbed to liberalism and is or was rated one of the top 10 party schools by Playboy. (Mind you, I did not read that in Playboy. During orientation, the Student Government Union was giving facts about the school and that was one of them.) The school has a monastery with a liberal order of Benedictine monks. I’m only giving you this information to emphasize the complete impossibity of somehow changing the school and bringing it back to its Catholic roots.

The problem lies with my brother’s school. The school was founded in 2003 so it is fairly new. It only has about 200 students with a capacity for 800. No senior class either.

The problem I have with the school is that it is teaching heterdoxy in its religion classes. It also maybe doing this in other subjects. I am not sure. This school is recognized and part of the diocese. How come this kind of liberalism is allowed to be taught in a Catholic high school? There are some students in that school that believe that abortion is okay, and everything does not need to be in accordance with the Church. But that’s probably everwhere. Anyway, if proper orthodox teachings cannot be taught in a Catholic high school, where can it be taught?

I really want to do something, but I don’t know where to start. I want to write a letter to the bishop of the diocese, but what would I say that would make him listen? Please. Please. I need some advice. And prayers.

ps.- I did not want to make this post long so I omitted many details. Like for one, some of teachers are teaching that Jesus is not necessary for salvation.

I realize that some of you have different opinions than mine, like you may believe that not every teaching has to be in accordance with the Church. That’s fine. If that is the case, DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST. Keep it to yourself. All I’m asking for is advice, preferably from those who still keep the orthodox teachings of the Church.

 

[Character_Zero]

That’s what Fr. Benedict Groeschel calls a “phone Catholic school.” He recommends secular universities over phony Catholic schools… at least secular universities won’t teach you bad doctrine (they teach no doctrine, theologically)

 

[Fr.Joe]

Sorry to hear the disappointing news. It’s a very unfortunate reality that so many “Catholic” universities have sold their souls for the sake of government funding. I too went to a “Catholic” university where gay rights groups were allowed to set up their headquarters in the Student center and all kinds of ridiculous anti-Catholic garbage was served up in the classrooms. I don’t know what the solution is to tell you the truth. In the mean time though, it provides a tremendous mission field for Catholics like yourself to live, promote, and exemplify the truth of the Church, to stand up, let your voice be heard, and refuse to be silenced. There’s a lot of work to be done within the Church and America has truly once again become missionary territory. Hang in there!

God Bless.

 

[markinohio]

Dear Vanus, Regarding your brothers School, write to the Parish Priest, most of them have email addresses now, its usually in the bulletin and if you dont get a response, write to the Bishop of the Diocese and if you dont get a response, write to the PTA , the School Board, the local paper, etc. but please dont be silent. These kids deserve to know our Faith not some watered down version of it.Chances are most of the parents are unaware of this, and if it was made known to them, they would also be upset. God Bless

 

[Character_Zero]

I too went to a “Catholic” university where gay rights groups were allowed to set up their headquarters in the Student center and all kinds of ridiculous anti-Catholic garbage was served up in the classrooms.

I hope Pope Benedict brings the hammer down on these kind of schools. I often think… many times they are “St. So and so’s University” - what does that saint think of what has happened? It is such a dishonor to the great names of so many saints…

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

What exactly are they teaching that is heterdox?

I do not doubt that many schools that label themselves as Catholic are doing so but I also know of many instances where people think something is heterdox when in reality it is not.

There are some students in that school that believe that abortion is okay, and everything does not need to be in accordance with the Church.

This is not evidence of heterdoxical teachings, this is evidence of ignorance of those who believe it or of heterdoxical belief.

It is not the role of the school to teach the faith, that ultimately falls upon the parents as it is their job.

As you are only a brother of someone going there I do not see that you really have much you can do. You can try to make sure that your brother knows the Truth and you could write the administration at the school, the pastor of the affilated parish, and maybe even the bishop but you really have no standing.

 

[johnnykins]

Fr. Joe:

Sorry to hear the disappointing news. It’s a very unfortunate reality that so many “Catholic” universities have sold their souls for the sake of government funding. I too went to a “Catholic” university where gay rights groups were allowed to set up their headquarters in the Student center and all kinds of ridiculous anti-Catholic garbage was served up in the classrooms. I don’t know what the solution is to tell you the truth. In the mean time though, it provides a tremendous mission field for Catholics like yourself to live, promote, and exemplify the truth of the Church, to stand up, let your voice be heard, and refuse to be silenced. There’s a lot of work to be done within the Church and America has truly once again become missionary territory. Hang in there!

God Bless.

Fr.,
I truly believe the solution lies exactly where the problem was allowed to get out of control - Rome, the Bishops, the Clergy, Sisters/Brothers and the laity - in that order! Whatever the best of intentions were with the way things have been handled for the past 40 years - it’s been a near total failure. (And we know that the Road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions! Boy is that a saying more apt now than ever) More than a whole generation was essentially non-catechized - especially those who attended Catholic schools. Teaching as to doctrine and morals became at best unclear. The youth taught to be embarrassed by Catholicism - it’s history, philosophy (if mentioned at all) music, language, modes of worship, etc. Priest, nuns, bishops who simply don’t believe - and use their position to confuse the people. We don’t need Feeneyites, but we sure need you, your bother priests and the Bishops to start taking your roles seriously again. Forget the money, power and offense you might give - Teach and Shepherd your flock - the Wolves are all around us. Like it or not, when the flock goes astray it’s the shepherd’s fault - not the sheeps’ fault. The number of lapsed, lost and abandoned Catholics - and their childern - is a scandal. An individual sheep might get into thorns or be attacked, etc., - but the flock is supposed to be protected by the shepherd. Arius was wrong, as are these “catholics” - make like the Bishop of Alexandria in ancient times and fight for the Truth.

Sorry for the rant that is somewhat off topic.

Pax te cum.

 

[Goldy]

ByzCath:

What exactly are they teaching that is heterdox?

I do not doubt that many schools that label themselves as Catholic are doing so but I also know of many instances where people think something is heterdox when in reality it is not.

This is not evidence of heterdoxical teachings, this is evidence of ignorance of those who believe it or of heterdoxical belief.

It is not the role of the school to teach the faith, that ultimately falls upon the parents as it is their job.

As you are only a brother of someone going there I do not see that you really have much you can do. You can try to make sure that your brother knows the Truth and you could write the administration at the school, the pastor of the affilated parish, and maybe even the bishop but you really have no standing.

I severely disagree with you in that it isn’t the school’s job to teach the faith. Two questions come to mind when you say this:

1. What if the parents at home ARE NOT teaching the faith properly? Then where should the child go for good and sound Catholic teaching?!?!
2. Then why are parents paying thousands of dollars to send their kids to Catholic schools in the first place? Parents send their kids to Catholic schools to get a FAITH-BASED EDUCATION!!!

Vanus,

If you haven’t done so already, I would try and find a nearby church that has perpetual adoration. Spend some quiet time and pray there in front of the Blessed Sacrament as much as possible. Say the rosary as often as possible. Thirdly, I would suggest some scripture reading. There are many instances of good people standing up for their beliefs in the Bible. I would do everything you can. Don’t stand idly by. Be a soldier for Christ and His Church. Stand up and fight, but do it in a charitable way. Good luck!!

 

[Fr.Joe]

johnnykins:

Fr.,
I truly believe the solution lies exactly where the problem was allowed to get out of control - Rome, the Bishops, the Clergy, Sisters/Brothers and the laity - in that order! Whatever the best of intentions were with the way things have been handled for the past 40 years - it’s been a near total failure. (And we know that the Road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions! Boy is that a saying more apt now than ever) More than a whole generation was essentially non-catechized - especially those who attended Catholic schools. Teaching as to doctrine and morals became at best unclear. The youth taught to be embarrassed by Catholicism - it’s history, philosophy (if mentioned at all) music, language, modes of worship, etc. Priest, nuns, bishops who simply don’t believe - and use their position to confuse the people. We don’t need Feeneyites, but we sure need you, your bother priests and the Bishops to start taking your roles seriously again. Forget the money, power and offense you might give - Teach and Shepherd your flock - the Wolves are all around us. Like it or not, when the flock goes astray it’s the shepherd’s fault - not the sheeps’ fault. The number of lapsed, lost and abandoned Catholics - and their childern - is a scandal. An individual sheep might get into thorns or be attacked, etc., - but the flock is supposed to be protected by the shepherd. Arius was wrong, as are these “catholics” - make like the Bishop of Alexandria in ancient times and fight for the Truth.

Sorry for the rant that is somewhat off topic.

Pax te cum.

I agree with the vast majority of what you’ve said, but I don’t think that it is always the shepards fault when the sheep go astray. Personally, I hammer constanly in defense of the faith, I do all I can to educate and recatechize people of all ages. Many of the “sheep” simply reject leadership and truth. They don’t want to hear about certain things and flat out reject any attempt at leading them in the right direction. You cannot force feed people or they spit it right back up. The “sheep” must have a desire to be fed and to be led.

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

Vanus Empty:

The problem lies with my brother’s school. … The problem I have with the school is that it is teaching heterdoxy in its religion classes. It also maybe doing this in other subjects. I am not sure. This school is recognized and part of the diocese. How come this kind of liberalism is allowed to be taught in a Catholic high school? There are some students in that school that believe that abortion is okay, and everything does not need to be in accordance with the Church. … I want to write a letter to the bishop of the diocese, but what would I say that would make him listen? Please. Please. I need some advice. …

1. Write to the bishop and be sincere. State the problems you see, give solid examples, and ask for his help to protect your brother from false teachings.
2. Pray for the bishop and the school that the proper actions are taken to correct this problem. If you can, ask the local adoration chapels to also pray for this intention.

 

[cameron_lansing]

Vanus,

The proper direction to take is to place your concerns regarding heterodox religious instruction with specific supporting documentation hefore the diocesan bishop, or the office he may have established for Catholic education in that diocese. The following aspects of Church law indicate why you have good reason to anticipate that he will listen to a factually based complaint of this nature.

The duty and right of education belongs in a special way to the Church, since it has been divinely entrusted with the mission of aiding people to reach the fullness of Christian life (c. 794 §1). Schools are a means to accomplish this (c. 796§1). Hence there should be every expectation of orthodoxy in teaching and practice.

In particular, canon 803 identifies the Catholic school: “§1. A Catholic school is understood as one which a competent ecclesiastical authority or a public ecclesiastical juridic person directs or which ecclesiastical authority recognizes as such through a written document. §2. The instruction and education in a Catholic school must be grounded in the principles of Catholic doctrine; teachers are to be outstanding in correct doctrine and integrity of life. §3. Even if it is in fact Catholic, no school is to bear the name ‘Catholic school’ without the consent of competent ecclesiastical authority.”

According to canon 800§1, the Church has the right to establish and supervise schools of any discipline, type and grade whatsoever. Often these are established by parishes or groups of parishes in a diocese. Religious institutes with a proper mission of education can establish schools with the consent of the diocesan bishop (c. 801). The Christian faithful as well can, subject to the diocesan bishop’s regulation, assist in establishing such schools (c. 800 §2).

The bishop exercises the power of vigilance over Catholic schools in his diocese, and can issue regulations. Canon 806 §1 provides that “The diocesan bishop has the right to watch over and visit the Catholic schools in his territory, even those which members of religious institutes have founded or direct. He also issues prescripts which pertain to the general regulation of Catholic schools; those prescripts are valid also for schools which these religious direct, without prejudice, however, to their autonomy regarding the internal direction of their schools.”

Moreover, the local ordinary is to be concerned that teachers of religious instruction in these schools (and others) are outstanding in correct doctrine, the witness of Christian life, and teaching skill (c. 804§2). He may appoint or approve them, remove or demand their removal, if a reason of religion or morals requires it (c. 805).

Good luck and God bless.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Goldy:

I severely disagree with you in that it isn’t the school’s job to teach the faith. Two questions come to mind when you say this:

1. What if the parents at home ARE NOT teaching the faith properly? Then where should the child go for good and sound Catholic teaching?!?!
2. Then why are parents paying thousands of dollars to send their kids to Catholic schools in the first place? Parents send their kids to Catholic schools to get a FAITH-BASED EDUCATION!!!

While what you say is true it is till the responsibility of the parent to ensure that their child is raised in the Faith properly.

As of yet, I have not seen that in this case there is no good and sound Catholic teaching. The evidence of what the children do believe does not show that the school is teaching incorrectly just that the children are believeing incorrectly.

 

[johnnykins]

Fr. Joe:

I agree with the vast majority of what you’ve said, but I don’t think that it is always the shepards fault when the sheep go astray. Personally, I hammer constanly in defense of the faith, I do all I can to educate and recatechize people of all ages. Many of the “sheep” simply reject leadership and truth. They don’t want to hear about certain things and flat out reject any attempt at leading them in the right direction. You cannot force feed people or they spit it right back up. The “sheep” must have a desire to be fed and to be led.

When the flock goes astray - that, I believe, is the shepherd’s fault. As I said, individuals are a different matter. Let’s face it, Europe is largely lost and the USA and Australia are not far behind. I commend you for whatever you do to keep the flock together in Truth. Yet, when theologians, Bishops, priests, nuns and brothers publicly teach things that are erroneous - and NOTHING is done about it for years, if ever - you have to blame the shepherds. When innovations in the Mass are allowed without correction - it’s the shepherd’s fault. When syncretism is implicitly or explicitly taught to the young in Catholic Schools - it’s the shepherd’s fault. To then blame the laity for not understanding their faith and failing to pass it on is a bit much. When the average lay person is thoroughly confused or misled as to the faith by the shepherds - you cannot in good faith blame them when they do not pass on the faith to thir children or pass it on wrongly. If Catholicism is just one of many sects - as has frequently been taught, implicitly and explicitly, in Catholic schools over the last 40 years, why are the shepherds wondering why the faithful are leaving?

I don’t mean to slam you in any way. But there are many, many Shepherds that need, figuratively, a good quick slap upside the head - and have deserved it for years. Look at what it took to get their attention for something obvious like the sex scandal!!! Now on these threads some folks blame the laity!! for the catechesis mess. Others will claim the laity should obediently defer to the clergy - seemingly even when the clergy is in manifest error or heresy.

It’s time for the Shepherds to start being that; to stop looking to blame others; to accept their failings; to confess their problems/lack of faith/sloth/whatever it is - and get back to being Shepherds. No one said it would be easy.

Vatican II wanted to reduce clericalism - great, here’s one layman that’s ready to tell the Shepherds - No More Excuses - DO YOUR JOB!!You’ve shirked it for far too long - and the laity is in part responsible for letting you do that, too. I don’t completely hold the laity innocent - however the main part of the blame belongs with the clergy, nuns and brothers. Who do you think has confused so much of the laity?

 

[Vanus_Empty]

ByzCath:

As of yet, I have not seen that in this case there is no good and sound Catholic teaching. The evidence of what the children do believe does not show that the school is teaching incorrectly just that the children are believeing incorrectly.

Thank you all for your advice. Please keep them coming. And if you can, please offer up a prayer for me.

Regarding ByzCath,

All I’m saying in reference to your quote above is why can that type of liberalism be accepted? And the school is teaching them incorrectly if it allows its students to believe that not everything has to be in accordance with the Church.

Secondly, I understand that I have not given evidence. But if you scrutinized my first post, instead of overlooking it, then you would see that I wrote that I “omitted many details.” The details being the heterdoxy that is being taught in the religion classes. I have proof that heterdoxy is being taught there. One major erroneous teaching is that one of the nuns is saying that Jesus is not necessary for salvation, and that all you have to be is a good person. THAT IS FALSE! And I’m sure you would agree. I have documentation and witnesses from students that prove my knowledge that heterdoxy is being taught at that “Catholic” school. If you really want some examples, I can give them to you, but I don’t think I should because since this problem is in my brother’s school, and I “have no standing,” then neither must evidence be presented to you since it too would not be in your “standing.”

I anticipated that I would get a reply like yours: somehow skeptical that I’m not telling the truth and acting impulsively. I would not have brought this issue up unless I had FACTS. And I do.

 

[Kirane]

Vanus Empty:

One major erroneous teaching is that one of the nuns is saying that Jesus is not necessary for salvation, and that all you have to be is a good person. THAT IS FALSE! .

Hasn’t the Catholic Church changed (or developed?) its teaching on this question so that for example, it is now taught that the Old Covenant is salvific for Jews and that they do not have to convert to Catholicism in order to be saved?

 

[JSmitty2005]

Kirane:

Hasn’t the Catholic Church changed (or developed?) its teaching on this question so that for example, it is now taught that the Old Covenant is salvific for Jews and that they do not have to convert to Catholicism in order to be saved?

:nope:

 

[Kirane]

[/quote]

See the document: “Reflections on Covenant and Mission.” Walter Cardinal Kasper, president of the Pontifical Commission for the Religious Relations with the Jews, is quoted by the document as saying that “the Church believes that Judaism . . . is salvific for [the Jews] because God is faithful to his promises.” Also according to the document: Jews do not need the saving act of Christ’s sacrifice because they “already dwell in a saving covenant with God."
In other words, it is not just one nun at one school who is teaching this. This comes from the president of a Pontifical Commission and as such, it may not be heterodox teaching, but it does contradict what was taught before at the Council of Florence, for example.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Kirane:

See the document: “Reflections on Covenant and Mission.” Walter Cardinal Kasper, president of the Pontifical Commission for the Religious Relations with the Jews, is quoted by the document as saying that “the Church believes that Judaism . . . is salvific for [the Jews] because God is faithful to his promises.” Also according to the document: Jews do not need the saving act of Christ’s sacrifice because they “already dwell in a saving covenant with God."
In other words, it is not just one nun at one school who is teaching this. This comes from the president of a Pontifical Commission and as such, it may not be heterodox teaching, but it does contradict what was taught before at the Council of Florence, for example.

:nope:
I see that your biases have limited the extent of your search for truth. Try these links :

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210fr.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210fea1.asp

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Vanus Empty:

Regarding ByzCath,

All I’m saying in reference to your quote above is why can that type of liberalism be accepted? And the school is teaching them incorrectly if it allows its students to believe that not everything has to be in accordance with the Church.

This shows some lack of understanding. No one allows anyone to believe anything. It is not up to me, nor you, nor the school to make any one believe anything.

All we can do is teach them and if they chose to believe otherwise then they will and can do so.

Secondly, I understand that I have not given evidence. But if you scrutinized my first post, instead of overlooking it, then you would see that I wrote that I “omitted many details.” The details being the heterdoxy that is being taught in the religion classes. I have proof that heterdoxy is being taught there. One major erroneous teaching is that one of the nuns is saying that Jesus is not necessary for salvation, and that all you have to be is a good person. THAT IS FALSE! And I’m sure you would agree. I have documentation and witnesses from students that prove my knowledge that heterdoxy is being taught at that “Catholic” school. If you really want some examples, I can give them to you, but I don’t think I should because since this problem is in my brother’s school, and I “have no standing,” then neither must evidence be presented to you since it too would not be in your “standing.”

Yes, I guess I did skim though your post a bit quick and did mist the part about you omitting many details, to that I apologize.

The fact about you not having any “standing” is more of a legal type comment. I highly doubt that the school or bishop would do much without you having a child in the school is what I meant by it. To complain and have our issues heard in most cases you must have standing, that is a vested interest. As you are only a brother to someone who goes there and not the legal guardian I highly doubt they would listen to you or really care what you have to say.

I anticipated that I would get a reply like yours: somehow skeptical that I’m not telling the truth and acting impulsively. I would not have brought this issue up unless I had FACTS. And I do.

If you anticipated a reply like mine then maybe you should have been prepared for it. There is a whole lot of Church bashing that goes on and I take offense and speak up when I must.

Now with the further information you have posted here, yes there are some bad teachings going on at this school and as I suggested in one of my replies, write the school, the pastor of the parish, and the bishop but be prepared when they comment that you have no child going there.

 

[Kirane]

I see that your biases have limited the extent of your search for truth. Try these links :
]
[/quote]

This is not a “search for truth” and this is not a “bias”. It is ridiculous to call it such. this is simply a statement that what the nun was preaching in school was similar to what was said in the document: “Reflections on Covenant and Mission.” Walter Cardinal Kasper, president of the Pontifical Commission for the Religious Relations with the Jews, is quoted by the document as saying that “the Church believes that Judaism . . . is salvific for [the Jews] because God is faithful to his promises.” Also according to the document: Jews do not need the saving act of Christ’s sacrifice because they “already dwell in a saving covenant with God."
In other words, it is not a case of an isolated school or an isolated nun teaching this. This was publicly declared by the President of a Pontifical Commission in a recent public document.
Also, this declaration and this document had nothing to do with me or with my biases, so why indulge in a personal attack on my biases? Why not spend a little effort on what the nun said in the school and what was said in the document by the President of a Pontifical Commission? All that the links show is that some Catholics dissent from what the President of a Pontifical Commission said, but to my knowledge, and correct me if I am wrong, these Catholics dissenters opposing the official document with quotes from the President of the Pontifical Commission for Regligious relations with the Jews, have not been appointed to any Pontifical office or Pontifical Commission by the Vicar of Christ, the Pope of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.