History of Abortion in the Catholic Church

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“Sometimes, indeed, this lustful cruelty, or, if you please, cruel lust, resorts to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure barrenness; or else, if unsuccessful in this, to destroy the conceived seed by some means previous to birth, preferring that its offspring should rather perish than receive vitality; or if it was advancing to life within the womb, should be slain before it was born.”
St Augustine, On Marriage and Concupiscience, 1.17.

The fact that the woman called St. Augustine “a monk” proves that she has no idea what she is talking about. She’s simply committing historical revisionism.
 
alias235 said:
So I found this while surfing the net:
voices.yahoo.com/history-abortion-catholic-church-5886362.html

Is any of it true? Is the Catholic Church’s tradition and teachings as “wishy-washy” as it implies?
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That is simply not true. The Church has always taught that abortion is murder and that specific teaching goes back to the time of the Apostles.

It can be found in what was one of the earliest catechisms: The Didache (The Lord’s teachings through the twelve Apostles to the nations) written around 70 AD to 100 AD.
The Didache is a writing accepted by the Church and the CCC quotes it supporting certain teachings.

“Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.”
 
It’s all her opinion and interpretation. It doesn’t stand in light of reality.
 
alias235 said:
So I found this while surfing the net:
voices.yahoo.com/history-abortion-catholic-church-5886362.html

Is any of it true? Is the Catholic Church’s tradition and teachings as “wishy-washy” as it implies?
Click to expand...
She mentions a lot of things said by Popes without reference to documents or quotes. The way to find out is to research for yourself. Possibly the links at the bottom have more information. The Vatican website might have whatever docs are referenced online. She believes somethings he has read, IMO.

However, I was taught when I came into the Church that the Church cannot say when ensoulment occurs. So, the Church “errs on the side of caution” and considers it to happen at conceptional, the earliest possible time it reasonably could, as nothing that can be called a complete individual exists before then. “Ensoulment” at conception is not dogma.

BTW, here is a link to the Didache if you want to read it:

earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html
 
Today our Catholic leaders are silent when high rank catholic politicians espouse abortion.
 
Stuff like the OP’s article are nothing more than anti-Catholic historical revisionism.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Question, how do people in 380AD ever determine that the fetus has gained human form?
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The same way we learned about fetal development. They observed the results of miscarriages, and murdered pregnant women with their bellies cut open. There is some evidence that C-section births were done as well. Supposedly Julius Caesar was born this way hence the name caesarian section.
 
I don’t even need to read the article to tell you right now that it’s a joke and is totally inaccurate garbage meant to make Catholics look bad.
 
Yes that article is pretty much the truth, no matter what the diache says, views changed,

the Catholic Church has always considered abortion evil but had problems and changes of thought when they considered it as murder.
 
Luvtosew said:
Yes that article is pretty much the truth, no matter what the diache says, views changed,

the Catholic Church has always considered abortion evil but had problems and changes of thought when they considered it as murder.
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No, they always considered abortion murder. What they disagreed upon was at what point it changed from contraception to abortion-a scientific issue, not a moral issue.
 
Also, St. John Chrysostom (c.345-407), condemned abortion as worse than murder. So the claim that abotions was accepted by the Church at 380AD is highly unikely. But you know what, it is possible a bishop somewhere or a priest somewhere could have accepted some form of abortion. But that doesn’t make him right nor representative of the whole Church. He either would have been corrected later on or cast out as a heretic.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Question, how do people in 380AD ever determine that the fetus has gained human form?
Click to expand...
They didn’t, but they didn’t need to. If the act wasn’t abortion it was contraception. Either way it’s a mortal sin.

Edit - maybe it’s still abortion but not necessarily murder if there was no way of knowing that a human life existed at that point. Once again, it’s still mortal sin
 
Julia_Mae said:
However, I was taught when I came into the Church that the Church cannot say when ensoulment occurs. So, the Church “errs on the side of caution” and considers it to happen at conceptional, the earliest possible time it reasonably could, as nothing that can be called a complete individual exists before then. “Ensoulment” at conception is not dogma.
Click to expand...
While the church may not have teach the exact moment of ensoulment, logic would indicate that if we can identify something as an organism and determine that the organism is alive then it must have a soul, else it wouldn’t be a living organism.
 
Julia_Mae said:
She mentions a lot of things said by Popes without reference to documents or quotes. The way to find out is to research for yourself. Possibly the links at the bottom have more information. The Vatican website might have whatever docs are referenced online. She believes somethings he has read, IMO.

However, I was taught when I came into the Church that the Church cannot say when ensoulment occurs. So, the Church “errs on the side of caution” and considers it to happen at conceptional, the earliest possible time it reasonably could, as nothing that can be called a complete individual exists before then. “Ensoulment” at conception is not dogma.

BTW, here is a link to the Didache if you want to read it:

earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html
Click to expand...
You can see clearly that it is Church doctrine that life begins at conception and the soul is created immediately.

CCC 2319** Every human life, from the moment of conception** until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.

CCC 2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

CCC 366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.
 
Does someone can tell me why the Church forbids abortion even when it is to anencephalic children, or blind children or any other syndromes?

Why allowing children take a life filled with suffering rather than aborting them?

Thanks.
 
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