History of the Papacy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Montie_Claunch
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Montie_Claunch

Guest
I know that some protestants will argue from a historical point of view that the Papacy never existed untill it arose out of, anywhere from third century onward. Does anyone know of any good, solid, ceditable books out there that go into the history behind the Papcy? Thanks and God bless.
 
Pax vobiscum!
  • Upon This Rock* by Stephen K. Ray is an excellent book. I know there are a few others that I have heard are good too, but I don’t recall the names of them right now. You can find them by searching the bookstore on this site, though.
In Christ,
Rand
 
Montie Claunch:
I know that some protestants will argue from a historical point of view that the Papacy never existed untill it arose out of, anywhere from third century onward. Does anyone know of any good, solid, ceditable books out there that go into the history behind the Papcy? Thanks and God bless.
Click to expand...
There is a book called Jesus, Peter, and The Keys that goes into depth on this issue. I have never read it though so I can’t give an explanation of how good it is.
 
I’ll repeat the good advice:

Upon This Rock by Steve Ray and Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy are both knockout good books. You won’t need anything else, although there are plenty of great, slightly older books if interested.
 
Doesn’t Catholic Answers have a book about the papacy written by a former Russian Orthodox theologian? I can’t remember the name of it.
 
Anybody read Ray’s book? I looked at it at the store, and I plan on buying it, but I am curious… it looked like it was 67% footnotes! Why?
 
40.png
Lazerlike42:
Anybody read Ray’s book? I looked at it at the store, and I plan on buying it, but I am curious… it looked like it was 67% footnotes! Why?
Click to expand...
I have this book and it is excellent! Yes, there are lots of footnotes and they give explanation of the particular letter given in the book. It is very important that you understand the reasons whether they are cultural, social, etc. behind the context of the letter.

I recommend it highly.
 
40.png
Veritas41:
Doesn’t Catholic Answers have a book about the papacy written by a former Russian Orthodox theologian? I can’t remember the name of it.
Click to expand...
That would be The Russian Church and the Papacy by Vladimir Soloviev
 
40.png
Lazerlike42:
Anybody read Ray’s book? I looked at it at the store, and I plan on buying it, but I am curious… it looked like it was 67% footnotes! Why?
Click to expand...
It is sort of a strange style at first but once you realize how it goes it’s great. Think of it as the main storyline and you can jump off and go deeper at all these given points, then come back with further understanding and hop back into the main story. The best part of the footnotes is that he spends a lot of time refuting Protestant theories along the way. Very often he specifically mentions Protestant authors and specific arguments, then walks you through the situation. Great book.
 
The Early Church by Henry Chadwick. It talks about the “rapid rise to primacy of the Roman see” in a chapter specifically titled “The Papacy.”
 
Montie Claunch:
Does anyone know of any good, solid, ceditable books out there that go into the history behind the Papcy? Thanks and God bless.
Click to expand...
Isnt there any good, solid, credible information regarding the pope in any of the 27 NT writings that are in the Holy Bible?
 
40.png
geno75:
Isnt there any good, solid, credible information regarding the pope in any of the 27 NT writings that are in the Holy Bible?
Click to expand...
I’m glad you asked! 😃

**Acts 1:12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount that is called Olivet, which is nigh Jerusalem, within a sabbath day’s journey. 13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus, and Simon Zelotes, and Jude the brother of James. 14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty:)

16 Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus: 17 Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, until the day wherein he was taken up from us, one of these must be made a witness with us of his resurrection. 23 And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave them lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. **

Pax tecum,
 
40.png
geno75:
Isnt there any good, solid, credible information regarding the pope in any of the 27 NT writings that are in the Holy Bible?
Click to expand...
Read Ezekiel, ch. 34 - “For thus says the Lord GOD: I myself will look after and tend my sheep. As a shepherd tends his flock when he finds himself among his scattered sheep, so will I tend my sheep. I will rescue them from every place where they were scattered when it was cloudy and dark. I will lead them out from among the peoples and gather them from the foreign lands; I will bring them back to their own country and pasture them upon the mountains of Israel”.

Then read John chapter 10, “I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.” and also in chapter 10, “Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever does not enter a sheepfold through the gate but climbs over elsewhere is a thief and a robber. But whoever enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens it for him, and the sheep hear his voice, as he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.”

Then read John 21, **When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.

**While you at it, Read Isaiah 22 and then Matthew 16.

Good Luck!

Notworthy***
 
Church Militant:
I’m glad you asked! 😃

**Acts 1:12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount that is called Olivet, which is nigh Jerusalem, within a sabbath day’s journey. 13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus, and Simon Zelotes, and Jude the brother of James. 14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty:)

16 Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus: 17 Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, until the day wherein he was taken up from us, one of these must be made a witness with us of his resurrection. 23 And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave them lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. **

Pax tecum,
Click to expand...
Ohhh, solid stuff here. I supposed I could of gleaned on this myself. I guess I also could of counted how many times Peter is mentioned in the NT. This quote above is just ooozing with papal truths.
 
40.png
NotWorthy:
Read Ezekiel, ch. 34 - “For thus says the Lord GOD: I myself will look after and tend my sheep. As a shepherd tends his flock when he finds himself among his scattered sheep, so will I tend my sheep. I will rescue them from every place where they were scattered when it was cloudy and dark. I will lead them out from among the peoples and gather them from the foreign lands; I will bring them back to their own country and pasture them upon the mountains of Israel”.

Then read John chapter 10, “I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.” and also in chapter 10, “Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever does not enter a sheepfold through the gate but climbs over elsewhere is a thief and a robber. But whoever enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens it for him, and the sheep hear his voice, as he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.”

Then read John 21, When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.

While you at it, Read Isaiah 22 and then Matthew 16.

Good Luck!

Notworthy***
Click to expand...
Again, thanks! All these passages are screaming “POPE IN ROME!”

I also learned from here when Jesus said “A city on a hill cannot be hid.” he was referring to the Vatican City. :eek:
 
40.png
geno75:
Again, thanks! All these passages are screaming “POPE IN ROME!”

I also learned from here when Jesus said “A city on a hill cannot be hid.” he was referring to the Vatican City. :eek:
Click to expand...
If you choose to mock…you can easily be ignored…
 
40.png
Lazerlike42:
Anybody read Ray’s book? I looked at it at the store, and I plan on buying it, but I am curious… it looked like it was 67% footnotes! Why?
Click to expand...
Pax vobiscum!

I haven’t read the whole thing yet; I’m still on the part where he goes through all the Scripture passages that show Peter’s primacy. But in that part, what he does is put the Bible passage in regular font and has footnotes for certain parts of that passage. In the footnotes he explains the passages, cites other works, and refutes Protestant claims about those specific passages (and also cites Protestants who agree with some parts!). I kind of like the style Steve Ray uses, but it might take a little while to get used to.

In Christ,
Rand
 
You may want to check out, The Development of The Papacy by Burn-Murdoch
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top