How Church could be infallible?

[Bahman]

According to Catholic belief Church is infallible because of intervention of Holy Spirit. Does’t that mean that members of Church receiving revelation and they are prophet?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

According to Catholic belief Church is infallible because of intervention of Holy Spirit. Does’t that mean that members of Church receiving revelation and they are prophet?

The teaching authority of the Church is infallible, but obviously infallibility is not lodged in every member.

How could the Church not be infallible if it is established by the true God who would not lead his flock over a cliff?

 

[davidv]

According to Catholic belief Church is infallible because of intervention of Holy Spirit. Does’t that mean that members of Church receiving revelation and they are prophet?

What do you think “infallibility” means? Based on the above, what you think it means is not what the Church says it means.

 

[Bahman]

The teaching authority of the Church is infallible, but obviously infallibility is not lodged in every member.

How they could be infallible if what they say as truth is the result of revelation? This means that they are prophet.

How could the Church not be infallible if it is established by the true God who would not lead his flock over a cliff?

Member of church are not error free since they are simple human being like me and you unless they are prophets and receive revelation. Do they receive revelation? Are they prophet?

 

[Bahman]

What do you think “infallibility” means?

Infallibility simply means to be error free.

Based on the above, what you think it means is not what the Church says it means.

What the church teaches could be erroneous if it is the result of human thinking otherwise it should be the result of revelation which means that the members of church are prophets.

 

[seagal]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm (emphasis mine)

It is well to begin by stating the ecclesiological truths that are assumed to be established before the question of infallibility arises. It is assumed:

• that Christ founded His Church as a visible and perfect society;
• that He intended it to be absolutely universal and imposed upon all men a solemn obligation actually to belong to it, unless inculpable ignorance should excuse them;
• that He wished this Church to be one, with a visible corporate unity of faith, government, and worship; and that
• in order to secure this threefold unity, He bestowed on the Apostles and their legitimate successors in the hierarchy — and on them exclusively — the plenitude of teaching, governing, and liturgical powers with which He wished this Church to be endowed.

And this being assumed, the question that concerns us is whether, and in what way, and to what extent, Christ has made His Church to be infallible in the exercise of her doctrinal authority.** It is only in connection with doctrinal authority as such that, practically speaking, this question of infallibility arises**…

…The Church is infallible in her objective definitive teaching regarding faith and morals, not that believers are infallible in their subjective interpretation of her teaching. This is obvious in the case of individuals, any one of whom may err in his understanding of the Church’s teaching…

 

[seagal]

What the church teaches could be erroneous if it is the result of human thinking otherwise it should be the result of revelation which means that the members of church are prophets.

Yes humans are eminently fallible in themselves, and it would be exceedingly arrogant for anyone to claim to be without error. Except for the fact that Christ promised his apostles, his Church, that he would send them a helper, the Holy Spirit. John 14:16-17, 26 “I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth…The Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

The Church does nothing without the council of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bahman]

Yes humans are eminently fallible in themselves, and it would be exceedingly arrogant for anyone to claim to be without error. Except for the fact that Christ promised his apostles, his Church, that he would send them a helper, the Holy Spirit. John 14:16-17, 26 “I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth…The Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

The Church does nothing without the council of the Holy Spirit.

So according to what you said the member of church receive revelation and they are prophet. Why they don’t declare prophesy?

 

[seagal]

So according to what you said the member of church receive revelation and they are prophet. Why they don’t declare prophesy?

I didn’t say they receive revelation. Public revelation died with the apostle John, the last of the apostles. There is still private revelation but even those people don’t declare themselves prophets.

 

[Bahman]

I didn’t say they receive revelation. Public revelation died with the apostle John, the last of the apostles. There is still private revelation but even those people don’t declare themselves prophets.

How they could be sure that their is not work of Satan? Satan is very tricky. Why Jesus didn’t finish his work before leaving us?

 

[seagal]

How they could be sure that their is not work of Satan? Satan is very tricky. Why Jesus didn’t finish his work before leaving us?

They pray a lot. One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is discernment. And nothing is decided quickly.

Jesus did finish his work. Now we have ours.

 

[Bahman]

They pray a lot. One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is discernment. And nothing is decided quickly.

Jesus did finish his work. Now we have ours.

If Jesus finished his work then why we have to many theologian who work to understand the truth and some receive revelation?

 

[Vico]

According to Catholic belief Church is infallible because of intervention of Holy Spirit. Does’t that mean that members of Church receiving revelation and they are prophet?

No. The teaching is Catechism:

888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command.415 They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ."416

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms:

891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent"422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.

 

[seagal]

If Jesus finished his work then why we have to many theologian who work to understand the truth and some receive revelation?

Jesus accomplished his mission as the Messiah. He came to preach the gospel, gather his people, and finally to offer himself as sacrifice on the cross. After his resurrection and before he was ascended into heaven he commissioned his apostles to go and preach all that he had taught them. Everything we need to know he taught us. It’s our own failing as humans that mean we have to learn and re-learn, some of us will put our own spin on things, some will totally misunderstand the message. That’s why Jesus left the hierarchy in place, that is the Pope and the Magisterium to lead the people.

 

[Bahman]

Jesus accomplished his mission as the Messiah. He came to preach the gospel, gather his people, and finally to offer himself as sacrifice on the cross. After his resurrection and before he was ascended into heaven he commissioned his apostles to go and preach all that he had taught them. Everything we need to know he taught us. It’s our own failing as humans that mean we have to learn and re-learn, some of us will put our own spin on things, some will totally misunderstand the message. That’s why Jesus left the hierarchy in place, that is the Pope and the Magisterium to lead the people.

Why then we have different branches of Christianity if Jesus’s teaching was complete?

 

[seagal]

Why then we have different branches of Christianity if Jesus’s teaching was complete?

Because, as I already said, some misunderstand the truth or misinterpret it. All Christians are earnestly and sincerely trying to follow Jesus’ teachings.

 

[Bahman]

No. The teaching is Catechism:

888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command.415 They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ."416

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms:

891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent"422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.

The Church assembly is a group of people who learn, interpret and preach Bible. How they could be right when the original church divided into different branches?

 

[Bahman]

Because, as I already said, some misunderstand the truth or misinterpret it. All Christians are earnestly and sincerely trying to follow Jesus’ teachings.

So you accept the fact that Church can misunderstand or misinterpret the truth because otherwise we could only have one branch of Christianity?

 

[seagal]

So you accept the fact that Church can misunderstand or misinterpret the truth because otherwise we could only have one branch of Christianity?

No, I accept the fact that people can misunderstand or misinterpret the truth. The Catholic Church has remained firm in the truth since Jesus founded it. Other Christian churches branched off when their leaders disagreed with what the Church taught.

 

[Bahman]

No, I accept the fact that people can misunderstand or misinterpret the truth. The Catholic Church has remained firm in the truth since Jesus founded it. Other Christian churches branched off when their leaders disagreed with what the Church taught.

Then why there should be any problems in Catholic Church’s teaching to allows division if Catholic Church was telling the truth? There shouldn’t be any deficiency in Jesus teaching to allows branching if his mission was complete.