B
Birdmanman
Guest
(I realize there is a similar question, “what is faith”, currently being answered on these forums, however I feel it differs slightly from this question).
Reason tells us much, including the existence of a moral God. (Assuming practical reason, that is, the universe has objective morality).
From reason and the observance of supernatural things, we can come to a not just theistic, but religious view of the universe.
But the last step, to believe in a particular religious view of the universe, I think requires something that goes beyond Reason. So on what grounds do we take the last step?
The last step, I would say, in coming to a Catholic view of the universe, is Faith, defined in the CCC as:
So how do we know, or how does a potential convert know, that God has infused this into his or her soul, especially if the person is not yet faithful?
To give a hypothetical example: Working with a potential convert,
(1) I use the cosmological/moral/ontological arguments to show there is one God, Creator of us all and is Himself the moral Orderer of Morality
(2) I then show him to trust as true various reports of the miraculous; the apparitions of Knock and Zeitoun and Lourdes and Akita and Fatima, the prediction of Sister Faustina and Our Lady of Good Success or ask him if he will trust the testimony of the martyr-apostles about the miracles in the life of Christ. The potential convert assents to the supernatural truth of these miracles.
(3) The potential convert is then presented with a situation like C.S. Lewis’s “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic”, either these supernatural apparitions are ignorant or crazy and do not know what they supernaturally talk about, or they are demonic, as the Pharisees thought of Christ’s miracles, or they are from God and point to the truth of Christianity.
(4) How does the potential convert make this choice? His reason has been satiated as far as it can be; there is evidence and good motive, but the other options always remain; he can go put his faith in the supernatural occurrences (no doubt demonic) of another religion, or some futuristic religion that mirrors Church teachings exactly except with the belief in another messiah.
(5) This is a free choice on his part that cannot be made through reasoning through the observed evidence alone (Vatican I teaches that assent to the truth of Christianity cannot be made, by mere human argument, a necessity of reason); so what is it made through? Is it even possible to determine on what criteria this choice is made? Keep in mind this is a potential convert, so to say “He should believe it because it is truth” or “because God has said it is true” would sound like a circular argument or an unsupported assertion.
Thanks for any help I could get with this. I have spoken with a philosophy-professor priest on this topic, and the best I could get was something like “On what criteria does a man love his wife? If he could enumerate a list of reasons and say “that’s all of them”, he should be worried”.
Reason tells us much, including the existence of a moral God. (Assuming practical reason, that is, the universe has objective morality).
From reason and the observance of supernatural things, we can come to a not just theistic, but religious view of the universe.
But the last step, to believe in a particular religious view of the universe, I think requires something that goes beyond Reason. So on what grounds do we take the last step?
The last step, I would say, in coming to a Catholic view of the universe, is Faith, defined in the CCC as:
And further we see the Theological Virtues “are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life”."the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself. By faith “man freely commits his entire self to God.”
So how do we know, or how does a potential convert know, that God has infused this into his or her soul, especially if the person is not yet faithful?
To give a hypothetical example: Working with a potential convert,
(1) I use the cosmological/moral/ontological arguments to show there is one God, Creator of us all and is Himself the moral Orderer of Morality
(2) I then show him to trust as true various reports of the miraculous; the apparitions of Knock and Zeitoun and Lourdes and Akita and Fatima, the prediction of Sister Faustina and Our Lady of Good Success or ask him if he will trust the testimony of the martyr-apostles about the miracles in the life of Christ. The potential convert assents to the supernatural truth of these miracles.
(3) The potential convert is then presented with a situation like C.S. Lewis’s “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic”, either these supernatural apparitions are ignorant or crazy and do not know what they supernaturally talk about, or they are demonic, as the Pharisees thought of Christ’s miracles, or they are from God and point to the truth of Christianity.
(4) How does the potential convert make this choice? His reason has been satiated as far as it can be; there is evidence and good motive, but the other options always remain; he can go put his faith in the supernatural occurrences (no doubt demonic) of another religion, or some futuristic religion that mirrors Church teachings exactly except with the belief in another messiah.
(5) This is a free choice on his part that cannot be made through reasoning through the observed evidence alone (Vatican I teaches that assent to the truth of Christianity cannot be made, by mere human argument, a necessity of reason); so what is it made through? Is it even possible to determine on what criteria this choice is made? Keep in mind this is a potential convert, so to say “He should believe it because it is truth” or “because God has said it is true” would sound like a circular argument or an unsupported assertion.
Thanks for any help I could get with this. I have spoken with a philosophy-professor priest on this topic, and the best I could get was something like “On what criteria does a man love his wife? If he could enumerate a list of reasons and say “that’s all of them”, he should be worried”.