How does the atonement work?

[Burning_Sapling]

Hi all,

Christ’s atonement is said to have made our reconciliation with God possible. But if God is necessarily merciful, then wouldn’t He forgive us our sins anyway, regardless whether Christ suffered on the cross?

I’m sorry if my question offends anyone, I’m genuinely just struggling to understand this issue.

Thanks for any help,

Sapling

 

[TwoNames]

No, He is Merciful, but also just. And the penalty for sin, is death. That’s why before Christ, Jews were slaughtering animals and offer that up to God. But that didn’t get anyone of them in heaven. In best case scenario they went to limbo of our Fathers. And today is the good saturday, it was on this day that Jesus lowered himself down and opened the door to heaven for all the souls in the limbo of our Fathers.

So, as we are all damned by Adam. We now have a new Adam (Jesus), who is without sin, but suffered as if he would bare every sin. And that’s why we can only get to heaven through His sacrifice.

God is Merciful and Just, justice demands payment for sins - this is His justice. And he could leave it at that. But in his Mercy, he had his son crushed for us, so that our debts was payed by someone capable of paying. GOD.

Remember when Jesus cried out “God why have you forsaken me”. He trully was completely abandoned and suffered the worst pains.

 

[Todd977]

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it, as an act of mercy God could have forgiven all the sins of mankind without Jesus Christ’s suffering and dying on the cross. Though not necessary, it was just and fitting that mankind make satisfaction to God for all their sins. Since the sins of mankind are against the infinite majesty of God, only a satisfaction of infinite value by mankind could make satisfaction for their sins. In other words, mankind owed a debt to God that only God could pay. So, out of love for mankind, God became a man in Jesus Christ. Because he is both God and man, anything he would have offered would have been more than sufficient to make satisfaction for all the sins of mankind. Jesus Christ chose to offer his life on the cross to make satisfaction for the sins of mankind.

The article on “Doctrine of the Atonement” in the old Catholic Encyclopeida discusses the historical development of the Catholic understanding on the atonement. It says in part:
To some extent, the solution offered by Anselm seems to have satisfied these desires, though, in the course of further discussion, an important part of his theory, the absolute necessity of Redemption and of satisfaction for sin, was discarded by later theologians, and found few defenders.

 

[Burning_Sapling]

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it, as an act of mercy God could have forgiven all the sins of mankind without Jesus Christ’s suffering and dying on the cross.[/INDENT]

I too had read the article you linked, and it seems to indicate that you are right that the Atonement was not strictly necessary (at least according to most Catholic theologians after Anselm).

But the objection I am stuck on is not that the Atonement was redundant because God could have forgiven our sins through other means. That would be a hollow objection. Rather, the objection I am stuck on is that the Atonement was redundant because God necessarily would have forgiven our sins anyway. That is, if God is already through his nature Merciful, He needn’t do anything more to make Himself Merciful.

In other words, the question is this: what was accomplished by the Atonement? The answer: God’s Mercy. The objection: how can Mercy be accomplished if it is already present?

Please show me where I am going wrong. I am supposed to receive Confirmation today, but I am having significant last minute doubts. I may need to wait.

 

[JuanFlorencio]

I too had read the article you linked, and it seems to indicate that you are right that the Atonement was not strictly necessary (at least according to most Catholic theologians after Anselm).

But the objection I am stuck on is not that the Atonement was redundant because God could have forgiven our sins through other means. That would be a hollow objection. Rather, the objection I am stuck on is that the Atonement was redundant because God necessarily would have forgiven our sins anyway. That is, if God is already through his nature Merciful, He needn’t do anything more to make Himself Merciful.

In other words, the question is this: what was accomplished by the Atonement? The answer: God’s Mercy. The objection: how can Mercy be accomplished if it is already present?

Please show me where I am going wrong. I am supposed to receive Confirmation today, but I am having significant last minute doubts. I may need to wait.

I suggest you to ask “Don Ruggero”, sending him a private message. He is a wise priest who used to teach Christology, among some other subjects.

 

[Aloysium]

What we do transforms ourselves as it does what is other. It alters our relationships. These relationships were meant to be loving, but sin changes them into something that takes. Through life our decisions make us who we will ourselves to be. God wants us to be Christ-like. This is our true self as we were meant to be. Forgiveness requires a transformation, since judgement is the reality who we are and what we have done. To transform ourselves we must sacrifice that which we would possess, return to God that which He has created and granted us. There are consequences to our actions and at that point love is synonymous with justice.

Atonement as I understand it involves a recognition of our sinfulness, the changing of our ways and a making up for the wrong we have done. God is all merciful and governs the universe based on love. We as sinners cannot attain communion with He who is love if we are not love. However, this has been made possible through the sacrifice of our saviour, as this now our human condition was determined by our first parents. The human hand which reached to appropriate what is God’s is pierced by the nail driven into the hand of the innocent Lamb, for all of us that we may, in Christ be found worthy of the Divine.

Atonement is much more than the taking away of guilty feelings, it involves a total spiritual rebirth into Christ.

:twocents:

 

[fred_conty]

Hi all,

Christ’s atonement is said to have made our reconciliation with God possible. But if God is necessarily merciful, then wouldn’t He forgive us our sins anyway, regardless whether Christ suffered on the cross?

I’m sorry if my question offends anyone, I’m genuinely just struggling to understand this issue.

Thanks for any help,

Sapling

St.Catherine of Siene asked that question of God in her prayer. Why he wanted to save people thru his death and resurrection when it would have been easier some other way.

The response she received was that He wanted everyone to see what great lengths his love extended towards them by doing this freely. That it gave the best way for those most hardened to see how much he loved them so that they would respond to his love. He loved them beyond all measure, even the most sinful, and went thru his suffering for them so that they would see what their sins did and repent. He didn’t want one soul to fail its course. So he gave us his all.

St. Catherine of Siena is a doctor of the Church.