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JohnCarroll
Guest
I am an almost new Catholic–to be confirmed soon. My parish has a wonderful music program but the people don’t sing. Have any of your parishes solved this problem?
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Bud_Stewart
Guest
We are trying lately.
I have been a member of my current parish for 12-years, and through the first 10 we only sang an occasional hymn at Easter or Christmas. Our current pastor has hired an organist and a brought in a cantor, but the congregation still seems uncomfortable. I have to admit that I don’t know the ‘new hymns’, and I really don’t care for them much, but I know that singing is a form of prayer, so I try.
I have been a member of my current parish for 12-years, and through the first 10 we only sang an occasional hymn at Easter or Christmas. Our current pastor has hired an organist and a brought in a cantor, but the congregation still seems uncomfortable. I have to admit that I don’t know the ‘new hymns’, and I really don’t care for them much, but I know that singing is a form of prayer, so I try.
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GrannyC
Guest
Our congregation sings as well as they are able-many of the songs are difficult to sing, unfamiliar, or just plain unsuitable.
I have noticed that when the more traditional hymns are sung, participation increases. This is, unfortunately, pretty rare.
I think the introduction of a cantor is not always helpful. In our parish, we have one who performs at nearly every Mass. When the congregation does sing, she always tries to drown us out
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God bless,
GrannyC
I have noticed that when the more traditional hymns are sung, participation increases. This is, unfortunately, pretty rare.
I think the introduction of a cantor is not always helpful. In our parish, we have one who performs at nearly every Mass. When the congregation does sing, she always tries to drown us out
.God bless,
GrannyC
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JohnCarroll
Guest
I have heard of this. There is a wonderful book called" Why Catholics Can’t Sing" it points out this very thing – the amplified Cantor drowning out the people. It says that this poor singing is an American / Irish thing. Because the US church was founded by the Irish, and the Catholic Irish were for so long forbade to sing( or make any noise) for fear of discovery by the English who were trying to stamp out their worship, they passed this on to us. The book says this is not true of the Spanish, Germans, Polish or other immigrants churches. Is this true?I think the introduction of a cantor is not always helpful. In our parish, we have one who performs at nearly every Mass. When the congregation does sing, she always tries to drown us out
God bless,
GrannyC
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LakeMI
Guest
the singing at my parish is in full effect. the Holy Spirit can do wonderous things.
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MichelleTherese
Guest
“I have noticed that when the more traditional hymns are sung, participation increases.”
I’ve noticed that too! We get a lot of totally unfamiliar songs during Mass and most of us have no idea what the tune is etc so we don’t sing along. I wish the more traditional hymns would come back. I’m tired of the warm-fuzzy 60’s and 70’s music. It’s not very sacred.
I’ve noticed that too! We get a lot of totally unfamiliar songs during Mass and most of us have no idea what the tune is etc so we don’t sing along. I wish the more traditional hymns would come back. I’m tired of the warm-fuzzy 60’s and 70’s music. It’s not very sacred.
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Ray_Marshall
Guest
Catholics have a bad reputation for the singing of their congregations. I think it probably has the same cause as the reputation of their many theologies. 
Except for the very few, nobody spends any time working with the congregation in instructing them how to sing the hymns showing up these days.
There are probably about 25 old “war horse” songs that most congregations can get through, but beyond that it gets pretty bad.
Maybe we should be asking this question of the Musical Directors or Choir Leaders as to why the congregation can’t sing the selected music.
- Is it the music? Too adventurous to those who normally only sing Happy Birthday or the Mickey Mouse Club song?
- Sung too rarely? How can you expect an untrained congregation to become accomplished singing some song they sing only twice a year?
- How many in the congregation can read the music scales in the hymnal. My last instruction in such was about 50 years ago. I remember a little bit, but always keep my ear cocked to listen to what everybody else is singing.
- Too many high notes? Many men (me, for sure) and I suppose some women can’t comfortably reach those notes. Maybe the music can be modified. Along those lines, my best friend from high school was a Benedictine Brother for some years. He had a bad voice. But the Abbey gave him and his likewise impaired brethren voice lessons and all of a sudden, even though his voice still was not pleasing, he was able to hit all the notes properly. Blended in with the rest of the congregation, it worked well.
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JohnCarroll
Guest
Ray Marshall said:
Maybe parishes should have occasional nights of hymn practice where members of the congregation could come and learn some hymns, maybe a little on how to read music and maybe some breathing exercises which might be helpful in their efforts.
This is a good idea! I have thought that the reason no one sings out is that they are too embarrassed. No one wants to sing a solo.
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kellie
Guest
Ray Marshall said:
Why do people print the music? Not many people can read music, and for most who can, and who play or sing in the choir at Mass, they normally have their own sheet music.
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rfk
Guest
I read the music, but I am not in the choir. There is no way I am bringing my own sheet music to Mass – I don’t even know what songs to expect until I get there.
I think the people sing just fine in our parish, but maybe I am singing loud enough that I don’t hear them!
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Hesychios
Guest
Glory to Jesus Christ!
This is a dilemma that I will not have an answer for but I can speculate a little bit.
The comments about the Irish predecessors from the book “Why Catholics Can’t Sing” is probably somewhat true. I have read that myself and I don’t doubt it. I like to sing but until a few years ago there was that intimidation factor of being the only one in the pews within 20 feet that was singing. I could hear people singing somewhere else but they always seemed so far away. Eventually I got so I didn’t care what anyone thought of my singing, and I belted out with reckless abandon!
My new parish (the last two years) has a cultural tradition of congregational singing. The Byzantine Ruthenians have always enjoyed their hymns and chants, the congregations are so small that everybody can see (and hear) everyone else from anywhere in the nave, and almost everyone sings, (except some of the newcomers).
I think that we are still witnessing the tail end of a cultural shift. Roman Catholicism had always emphasized a “proper interior disposition” that was very solemn and dignified. The hymns were glorious and very profound, the words were classic prayers and everyone knew them.
Today the Roman Catholic ideal seems to be more celebratory, light and joyful, so the solemnity is less evident. We seem to have a preference for introducing new material, and although it might not be evident to a regular church going parishioner, the mix does change over time. Some people just don’t have that kind of religion in them, they may be more introspective and yearn for the day when they could just sit with their hands folded as an organ drones on. That’s one reason Eucharistic adoration is becoming more popular, in the Roman Catholic culture there is still a great need for that quiet time in the presence of the Lord.
I like a lot of the church music I have learned over the last few decades, I am one of those people who will buy the CD that’s playing in the religious goods shop. I play them at home, selecting the music that fits my mood better or is more appropriate to my activity. I play them in my car too!
It just seems to me that I like the music better at home than I would in church. Does that mean anything?
Michael
This is a dilemma that I will not have an answer for but I can speculate a little bit.
The comments about the Irish predecessors from the book “Why Catholics Can’t Sing” is probably somewhat true. I have read that myself and I don’t doubt it. I like to sing but until a few years ago there was that intimidation factor of being the only one in the pews within 20 feet that was singing. I could hear people singing somewhere else but they always seemed so far away. Eventually I got so I didn’t care what anyone thought of my singing, and I belted out with reckless abandon!
My new parish (the last two years) has a cultural tradition of congregational singing. The Byzantine Ruthenians have always enjoyed their hymns and chants, the congregations are so small that everybody can see (and hear) everyone else from anywhere in the nave, and almost everyone sings, (except some of the newcomers).
I think that we are still witnessing the tail end of a cultural shift. Roman Catholicism had always emphasized a “proper interior disposition” that was very solemn and dignified. The hymns were glorious and very profound, the words were classic prayers and everyone knew them.
Today the Roman Catholic ideal seems to be more celebratory, light and joyful, so the solemnity is less evident. We seem to have a preference for introducing new material, and although it might not be evident to a regular church going parishioner, the mix does change over time. Some people just don’t have that kind of religion in them, they may be more introspective and yearn for the day when they could just sit with their hands folded as an organ drones on. That’s one reason Eucharistic adoration is becoming more popular, in the Roman Catholic culture there is still a great need for that quiet time in the presence of the Lord.
I like a lot of the church music I have learned over the last few decades, I am one of those people who will buy the CD that’s playing in the religious goods shop. I play them at home, selecting the music that fits my mood better or is more appropriate to my activity. I play them in my car too!
It just seems to me that I like the music better at home than I would in church. Does that mean anything?
Michael
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Jason_Hurd
Guest
I can empathise with GrannyC’s experience of a cantor drowning out the congregation, but I would suggest the members in her parish try fighting fire with fire. Try singing so powerfully that you drown her out for a change! When I was a professional musician with a symphony orchestra, one of the maxims we lived by was, “If you can’t hear the person next to you, you’re too loud.” For your situation, I’d alter it to: “If you can still hear the cantor, you’re not loud enough!”
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wisdom_3_5
Guest
Singing comes from the heart. It can be an expression of emotion, something our society doesn’t really emphasize in public venues (other than at sporting events maybe).
True, most people can’t read music. I find the traditional hymns easier to read and much more enjoyable to sing than the '60’s & '70’s ones (and I can read music). Participation is also better with the traditional. What I would really like to hear (and sing, since I’m in the choir) is more polyphony, Palestrina, Josquin, Di Lassus et al. Too bad we really don’t have enough members in the choir to acutally do alot of these
. Start joining the choir!
At our parish the congregation sings at the beginning & end of mass & sometimes the offetory. The choir usually sings during communion and just before mass starts. It can be a nice balance I think.
*When you sing you pray twice- St. Augustine :yup: *
True, most people can’t read music. I find the traditional hymns easier to read and much more enjoyable to sing than the '60’s & '70’s ones (and I can read music). Participation is also better with the traditional. What I would really like to hear (and sing, since I’m in the choir) is more polyphony, Palestrina, Josquin, Di Lassus et al. Too bad we really don’t have enough members in the choir to acutally do alot of these
. Start joining the choir!At our parish the congregation sings at the beginning & end of mass & sometimes the offetory. The choir usually sings during communion and just before mass starts. It can be a nice balance I think.
*When you sing you pray twice- St. Augustine :yup: *
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Jason_Hurd
Guest
Wisdom, you read my mind in your choice of composers. I’d be ecstatic to hear my church choir singing Palestrina and di Lassus! It’s really a shame that we don’t seem to be willing to support music studies for youth here in the States the way they do in Europe. That’s part of the reason we now have a whole generation of adults who are basically music-illiterate. When I was a boy in California in the 1960’s, every kid at least had the opportunity to learn an instrument(and as a side result, how to read music)in school. Now it seems like people who have musical inclinations just buy a Casio keyboard and let it do all the work. A shame!
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Scanner
Guest
I kind of the Weird Al Yankovic of singing hymns. I love to take a song that a popular artist has written and place a religious meaning behind it. Okay, I admit I just do it in the car.
The next time you hear James Taylor “How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You” think of singing it to Jesus. You only have to change a couple of words in the song. It changes the whole meaning behind the song.
I think that the magic of any music, poem, or literary art - that a reader or listener can derive multiple meanings.
This was entirely off the topic. Sorry.
How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You - It’s like sugar to the bee, da, de, da. . .
:tiphat:
The next time you hear James Taylor “How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You” think of singing it to Jesus. You only have to change a couple of words in the song. It changes the whole meaning behind the song.
I think that the magic of any music, poem, or literary art - that a reader or listener can derive multiple meanings.
This was entirely off the topic. Sorry.
How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You - It’s like sugar to the bee, da, de, da. . .
:tiphat:
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Jackster58
Guest
This is a great idea and I thought that I was the originator of it, although I never mentioned it to anyone else. Our parish is pretty poor at the song of the week singing, but they do a pretty good job at the required stuff, i.e. Gloria and such. I thought that they should have a class on “how to sing” and they might get a few more folks doing it. When you are standing next to someone who is blurting it out, it makes you a little more willing to try.
Jack
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Joby
Guest
My wife and I belong to a very small parish and the singing usually is quite robust. My wife is the organist and I am one of 2 cantors. When my wife selects a hymn that she feels most of the congregation may not know we try to introduce before mass on the preceding Sunday and on the day we are to use it at mass. This method seems to work for our parish. Also we have noted that many of the hymns written since Vatican II have an uneven tempo except for the refrains and are difficult for non musicians to sing.
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baltobetsy
Guest
Our amazingly talented organist takes the opportunity right before Mass to improvise on the entrance hymn and at Communion to improvise on the closing hymn. It’s his sneaky way of familiarizing the people with the tune and getting them ready to sing. It seems to work.
Betsy
Betsy
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Mamamull
Guest
One way this convert promotes singing, is to sing with gusto – not obnoxiously loud but, I don’t stop because a little kid turns around to look at me. I smile and keep singing.
Our parish actually sings well. I have also been part of the various music ensembles creating the music – even before I understood the order of Mass. It was the music that basically caused me to become Catholic.
I have heard it said that a cantor that has a glorious voice is not always the best choice. A cantor that sounds lonely and the congregation’s singing would boulster, is sometimes a good choice. Also, acantor with a great set of pipes can keep people feeling adequate to sing along with.
Don’t if that helps.
Pax et bonum,
Mamamull
Our parish actually sings well. I have also been part of the various music ensembles creating the music – even before I understood the order of Mass. It was the music that basically caused me to become Catholic.
I have heard it said that a cantor that has a glorious voice is not always the best choice. A cantor that sounds lonely and the congregation’s singing would boulster, is sometimes a good choice. Also, acantor with a great set of pipes can keep people feeling adequate to sing along with.
Don’t if that helps.
Pax et bonum,
Mamamull
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baltobetsy
Guest
I absolutely agree with you. I think cantors should have pleasant, ordinary voices that don’t intimidate the people. Of course they have to sing correctly and in tune, but beyond that, not much is necessary. I’ve been a cantor since 1977, and I attribute my success to being one of those ordinary singers. I have lots of training and can kick it up a notch to a more operatic sound, but the cantor’s stand is not the place for that.
Betsy
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