How often does God intervene in circumstances as a result of prayer?

[MysticMissMisty]

Salvete, omnes!

(First of all, my apologies if this question is in the incorrect forum. Please feel free to move if necessary.)

How often does God intervene in our circumstances as a result of our prayer, really?

I ask this because it seems to me that, very often, even if we pray for a given circumstance to change, it indeed rarely does, or maybe that is just me.

Also, very often, the circumstances in which we find ourselves involve other people, and, thus, other wills, wills that, as I understand it, God cannot ethically change without the concsent of the ones willing. He cannot, as I understand it, ethically alter a person’s will without their consent.

Also, we very rarely see nature deviate from a very logical cause/effect situation so, it would seem that, by in large, nature takes its pre-ordained course without change, even, arguably, as a result of our prayers for such to happen.

So, again, how often does God intervene in a situation, supernaturally or otherwise, so as to change it, when we pray for it to be changed?

Gratias.

 

[Irishmom2]

I am sure this is not something that has a definite answer. Remember, God always answers our prayers. But sometimes, the answer is: No. Or not yet.

I am not sure about your theory about God needing the consent of anyone to change their will. I am sure if he wanted to, He could. But instead, people have free will. Everyone is responsible for their own choices, for their own free will.

Maybe instead of praying to change someone’s will, we should pray for strength to endure, or acceptance, or how we can change ourselves in order to live our own lives.

 

[SJacob7]

We need to be sure that we pray according to the way Jesus taught.

John 14:13
And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14
If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

John 15:16
It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that *whatever you ask the Father in my name *he may give you.

John 16:23
On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, *whatever you ask the Father in my name *he will give you.

John 16:24

Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

So how are we praying? Are we asking through Jesus?

 

[robertmidwest]

So, again, how often does God intervene in a situation, supernaturally or otherwise, so as to change it, when we pray for it to be changed?

God knows our needs before we even ask them. We don’t change his will. Things may change as a result of our prayers but that is because God was waiting for us to ask. How often will things change and how often will things not change? That is God’s knowledge not ours.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

According to His will and His timing. Only He knows the answer to your question.

 

[mikekle]

**John 16:23
On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. **

Im not sure about this, Ive prayed for things over the years and yet to see any kind of result, but of course in those situations, its said God will do it ‘in his own time’, so that could be 70 years or 2 days, but then again, when God mentions time, he is fully aware of what our version of time is too.

Also curious about the above first part, ‘On that day you not question me about anything’…what day is this referring to?

 

[laocmo]

God is immutable. That’s a theological fact not my opinion. Look up all His recognized attributes. Immutable things are simply things whose state cannot change. If a prayer of yours was truly answered by God. That means He would have had to change from a state in which He had not granted it to one in which He had. That’s not possible for an immutable being. So simple logic, if you believe in immutability, says God can not answer prayers. A real study of all these attributes makes God look more and more like a nonexistent concept. See below.

God is:

1. Transcendent = incomprehensible, existing outside of space and time, unknowable and unsearchable by reasoning, impossible to understand or experience
2. Immutable = Immutable objects are simply objects whose state cannot change
3. Impassible = does not experience pain or pleasure from the actions of another being
4. Incorporeal = having no physical body or being without physical substance
5. Infinite = without any limits, being endless, immeasurable
6. Omnipotent = the power to effect whatever is not intrinsically impossible
7. Omnipresent = the power of being present everywhere at the same time
8. Omniscient = the capacity to know everything that there is to know

 

[ericc]

**John 16:23
On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. **

Im not sure about this, Ive prayed for things over the years and yet to see any kind of result, but of course in those situations, its said God will do it ‘in his own time’, so that could be 70 years or 2 days, but then again, when God mentions time, he is fully aware of what our version of time is too.

Also curious about the above first part, ‘On that day you not question me about anything’…what day is this referring to?

I couldn’t locate it at the moment, but I am sure I read it some where in the Bible, that it is given only if it is in accordance with the Father’s will. If someone can locate that verse, that would be highly appreciated so that I can bookmark it.

Otherwise, God would have to grant me all the silly and inappropriate things I have asked for in my life. And certain things that other people prayed for may contradict the things that I prayed for and God doesn’t do contradictions.

For instance, the things that I prayed for when I was young may be at odds with the things that my parents prayed that I would do or become. The things that anti-Catholics prayed for may be at odds with what Catholics prayed for. You see what I mean?

 

[SJacob7]

I couldn’t locate it at the moment, but I am sure I read it some where in the Bible, that it is given only if it is in accordance with the Father’s will. If someone can locate that verse, that would be highly appreciated so that I can bookmark it.

Otherwise, God would have to grant me all the silly and inappropriate things I have asked for in my life. And certain things that other people prayed for may contradict the things that I prayed for and God doesn’t do contradictions.

For instance, the things that I prayed for when I was young may be at odds with the things that my parents prayed that I would do or become. The things that anti-Catholics prayed for may be at odds with what Catholics prayed for. You see what I mean?

1 John 5:14
*And we have this confidence in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. *

 

[ericc]

1 John 5:14
And we have this confidence in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Thank you! The key word is “according to his will”. Often times we forget this portion when we asked for things. We complain that the things we ask for are good, useful, bring happiness etc and we get disheartened when we don’t get it and we rant and rant like spoiled little kids.

 

[mikekle]

Thank you! The key word is “according to his will”. Often times we forget this portion when we asked for things. We complain that the things we ask for are good, useful, bring happiness etc and we get disheartened when we don’t get it and we rant and rant like spoiled little kids.

So, its pretty much like a parent like telling their kid they can have anything they want…as long as the parent agrees?

Well, in that case, I can understand, as the parent has the best interest of the kid in mind when deciding, but certain things Ive asked for, they would be VERY good things in general, not just for me either, it would be a good thing for anyone, but I still have not received it? Why would this type of request not be in line with his will?

 

[ericc]

So, its pretty much like a parent like telling their kid they can have anything they want…as long as the parent agrees?

Well, in that case, I can understand, as the parent has the best interest of the kid in mind when deciding, but certain things Ive asked for, they would be VERY good things in general, not just for me either, it would be a good thing for anyone, but I still have not received it? Why would this type of request not be in line with his will?

I would put it another way. Parent agree if it is good for the family/society/etc. The good parent doesn’t display his power and authority to withhold just because he want to show who is boss. We withhold things sometimes as punishment, as a lesson to be learnt for the overall good. Not delight in causing disappointment.

I will hazard a guess. If God has already optimized the operation of the universe, some parameters may be flexible but some will not be without causing an overall reduction in optimization(greater good) on a holistic basis. Some sort of the Butterfly Effect.

I could easily imagine someone asking for the end of World War 2 prematurely so that the the whole world benefits, holocaust won’t happen, atomic bombing unnecessary. Or end of natural disasters.

But then there is still the question of free will and the design of natural laws that the universe operates in. If everything must work coherently, it would be illogical to suspend the operation of these laws on every prayer.

But the best answer I can give is that we do not know His will, his Plan. But in his Plan it includes room for prayer so that if one ask for favors earnestly enough, he may grant it but which he may not if you didn’t ask. Obviously the problem is we do not know of the many requests we submit which ones he sees fit for a change. Sometimes the change is not in the things we ask for , but in us, so that we can accept the non-granting of our wishes. I do believe there were things I asked for in my younger days that with maturity and wisdom are stuff I won’t pray for today. Stuff like puppy love and adolescent crushes and lost loves. But there are also stuff that I wished that God hadn’t taken my dad away so early for example. Many things we asked for appears to be self-centered i.e. make us happy , directly or indirectly.

Perhaps others may provide a better insight.

 

[Bradski]

You have no way of knowing.

 

[tonyrey]

You have no way of knowing.

The laws of probability apply to scientific conclusions…

 

[tonyrey]

Salvete, omnes!

(First of all, my apologies if this question is in the incorrect forum. Please feel free to move if necessary.)

How often does God intervene in our circumstances as a result of our prayer, really?

I ask this because it seems to me that, very often, even if we pray for a given circumstance to change, it indeed rarely does, or maybe that is just me.

Also, very often, the circumstances in which we find ourselves involve other people, and, thus, other wills, wills that, as I understand it, God cannot ethically change without the concsent of the ones willing. He cannot, as I understand it, ethically alter a person’s will without their consent.

Also, we very rarely see nature deviate from a very logical cause/effect situation so, it would seem that, by in large, nature takes its pre-ordained course without change, even, arguably, as a result of our prayers for such to happen.

So, again, how often does God intervene in a situation, supernaturally or otherwise, so as to change it, when we pray for it to be changed?

Gratias.

Far more often than we realise! We tend to expect instant results but there is no reason why they shouldn’t take weeks, months or even years to occur. Life is so complex it is often impossible for us to understand the full implications of events we regard as tragedies…

 

[laocmo]

If a prayer of yours was truly answered by God. That means He would have had to change from a state in which He had not granted it to one in which He had. That’s not possible for an immutable being. So simple logic, if you believe in immutability, God can not change and therefore cannot answer prayers. That would represent a change which He is not capable of. You must stop thinking of God as some benevolent grandfather figure who can be talked into giving you things. If that big list of His attributes are true, then God is completely inert as far as we are concerned.

God is:

1. Transcendent = incomprehensible, existing outside of space and time, unknowable and unsearchable by reasoning, impossible to understand or experience
2. Immutable = Immutable objects are simply objects whose state cannot change
3. Impassible = does not experience pain or pleasure from the actions of another being
4. Incorporeal = having no physical body or being without physical substance
5. Infinite = without any limits, being endless, immeasurable
6. Omnipotent = the power to effect whatever is not intrinsically impossible
7. Omnipresent = the power of being present everywhere at the same time
8. Omniscient = the capacity to know everything that there is to know

 

[tonyrey]

If a prayer of yours was truly answered by God. That means He would have had to change from a state in which He had not granted it to one in which He had. That’s not possible for an immutable being. So simple logic, if you believe in immutability, God can not change and therefore cannot answer prayers. That would represent a change which He is not capable of. You must stop thinking of God as some benevolent grandfather figure who can be talked into giving you things. If that big list of His attributes are true, then God is completely inert as far as we are concerned.

God is:

1. Transcendent = incomprehensible, existing outside of space and time, unknowable and unsearchable by reasoning, impossible to understand or experience
2. Immutable = Immutable objects are simply objects whose state cannot change
3. Impassible = does not experience pain or pleasure from the actions of another being
4. Incorporeal = having no physical body or being without physical substance
5. Infinite = without any limits, being endless, immeasurable
6. Omnipotent = the power to effect whatever is not intrinsically impossible
7. Omnipresent = the power of being present everywhere at the same time
8. Omniscient = the capacity to know everything that there is to know

If God is “completely inert” He couldn’t have created anything!

 

[laocmo]

If God is “completely inert” He couldn’t have created anything!

Perhaps the awful truth is that he didn’t create anything. You assume he did because that’s what you have been taught by others that have been taught, by others that have been taught, and on and on…

 

[fisherman_carl]

Perhaps the awful truth is that he didn’t create anything. You assume he did because that’s what you have been taught by others that have been taught, by others that have been taught, and on and on…

Of course God created everything. It is the explanation for why anything exists at all. None of those properties you stated would suggest otherwise. Even if creation always existed with God, it is God that ‘creates’ (or a better word might be generates in this case) and sustains it’s existence in the first place. Just as a table is the cause of a coffee cup being sustained in the air, even if the table and the cup existed from all eternity.

I don’t think the term inert would be apt for God. As God is considered to be pure Act with no potentiality. He actualizes everything else. What is a change but a movement from potentiality to actuality. Some potential has become actualized. This is part of a proof for God from Aquinas. That everything in our universe has both potentiality and actuality. It can change only if something outside of it actualizes it’s potential. So Aquinas deduces from this that there must be something that doesn’t require anything to be actualized from an external source in order that everything else can be actualized. So the idea of God not changing from this perspective simply means that God does not need some outside help to be actualized since he is fully actualized. And, since he is fully actualized he has no need for potentiality. He is thus in pure Act. Which gives a different impression from something that is inert and can not cause anything.

 

[fisherman_carl]

If a prayer of yours was truly answered by God. That means He would have had to change from a state in which He had not granted it to one in which He had. That’s not possible for an immutable being. So simple logic, if you believe in immutability, God can not change and therefore cannot answer prayers. That would represent a change which He is not capable of. You must stop thinking of God as some benevolent grandfather figure who can be talked into giving you things. If that big list of His attributes are true, then God is completely inert as far as we are concerned.

God is:

1. Transcendent = incomprehensible, existing outside of space and time, unknowable and unsearchable by reasoning, impossible to understand or experience
2. Immutable = Immutable objects are simply objects whose state cannot change
3. Impassible = does not experience pain or pleasure from the actions of another being
4. Incorporeal = having no physical body or being without physical substance
5. Infinite = without any limits, being endless, immeasurable
6. Omnipotent = the power to effect whatever is not intrinsically impossible
7. Omnipresent = the power of being present everywhere at the same time
8. Omniscient = the capacity to know everything that there is to know

Light is a bit of a mystery. Sometimes it behaves like a particle and other times it behaves like a wave. Is it a particle? Is it a wave? God is an even bigger mystery. While it seems like philosophy can paint God one way as this immutable fixed thing in eternity, we can also see God behaving through Scriptural Revelation where he has a relationship with his people and they pray to him and he hears their prayers, even relenting, in certain Scripture passages. So is God unable to respond to prayers because he is immutable? Or does God hear and respond to our prayers? Perhaps we can take a lesson from the mystery of light. And, that God simply escapes our simplistic models of him. As soon as we think he is a certain way then we haven’t figured him out and he behaved differently than what we expected, because he is simply beyond our comprehension and ability to pigeon hole.