In so much pain. Unable to cope with scruples, unable to trust those lovingly advising me. Just so scared

[InJune]

I am in a miserable place right now, suffering terribly under depression, OCD, and scruples. This has been going on for years, and I’m at my wits end. I have a regular confessor, who is very kind, but I still struggle with being able to trust him…or rather, being able to trust myself. Every single time I go to confession or a meeting, I bring a written list of what i want to ask, but I always either screw it up, or I skim the list too fast…then I’m far too embarassed to to go back. I have devout friends I ask advice of, and It hurts me that they might feel I don’t trust them. it’s never that…it’s always that I just don’t trust myself.

I’m in constant fear of what ifs. My worst fears always involve being afraid of scandal, blasphemy, and sins against charity. I lways feel like everything I say is uncharitable. I struggle so hard over my relationships with family. My family is emotionally abusive, yet I feel too guilty to break ties with them, especially my parents. I labor over fear of breaking the commandment to honor my mother and father. I’ve read many articles on forgiveness, and how to honor abusive parents, but I cannot shake these feelings of hurt and pain, nor can I conjur up many feelings of love, despite me wanting them to be happy and safe.

One of the worst attacks I’ve had has involved my best friend. We’re authors who write mostly for our own entertainment. She’s very supportive and respectful of my Catholic faith although she’s secular-ish Christian. We use to write many homosexual characters. Once I reverted to the faith, she said she was fine with me wanting to rewrite the stories we were working on, to either eliminate mentions of a characters homosexuality or, in some cases, remove the homosexual character altogether. She assured me that she still enjoyed our writing together, and the changes didn’t bother her. But I know she still sees many of them as beng gay, prefers them that way, and I feared terribly that even if we didn’t speak of our characters previous relationships again, I would still be guilty of presenting an ocasion of sin to her. because talking about a character might remind her of homosexuality, wich might lead to lustful thoughts. She swears even when she thinks about a pair she likes, she’s not having sexual or lustful thoughts…in addition, I brought this question to 2 priests, and 4 devout Catholics, and always feel peace for a while after they assure me I’m fine, but it comes back. my scruples ALWAYS come back. After I presented this issue to my priest, I was sure he hadn’t understood…he told me I was fine, but I was nervous and had rushed through my story…

This isn’t the only issue. I have many more. But this is just my most recent. i just want peace.

 

[johnnyjones]

My friend, you are human, and being human means you have a good bunch of shortcomings. I have a ton, your not alone.

 

[Bookcat]

Scruples can come in many and varied forms and degrees.

The French call it the doubting disease (though it is not a disease) for one has lot of problems knowing one knows…thus with doubt (or more often “apparent doubt”).

Of course there are degrees and it is possible for a person to have generally a delicate conscience or a normal conscience and still have a struggle with scruples in certain areas…or have very transient scruples such at the time of their conversion …or deeper conversion etc.

And a person may go from one to the other…

One combats scruples with a regular confessor…(via a kind of obedience in all but of course* manifest sin* – so if the confessor says murder his secretary or use contraception --well then one needs a new confessor!) (one establishes a relationship with the confessor as ones confessor --who knows of the scruples and can take “responsibility” for the scrupulous penitent–one discusses such with the confessor)

(One ought often to avoid seeking out all sorts of “differing voices” --running to different Priests etc.)

by forming ones conscience…(with such as the Catechism etc)

and with the guidance of the confessor “acting against ones scruples”

possibly by him giving some general principles for the person to follow in their case.

Contra scruplos agendum est, et fixo operis pede certandum

(*Act contrary to scruples and with a firm foot overcome them * --with the assistance of the confessor/spiritual director)

Overcoming ones scruples…ones fears… with a “firm foot”. Learning to act against them under the guidance of your confessor. Dismissing them. Not arguing with them. Treating them more like a barking dog or a hissing goose (to borrow from a 15th Century Carthusian). One does not stop to argue with a hissing goose or a barking dog does one…

by prayer…

Thinking more on the love of God and true life in Christ…

(maybe --and especially if OCD is involved involving a professional counselor etc -saw this site and saved it for those seeking such catholictherapists.com/-in the forum we are not permitted to give such advice on such.)

 

[InJune]

But…but what if we have gone to a regular confessor, and just still feel sick with sin? That’s my issue. I know my confessor is a kind and understanding priest, but I’ve just agonized after going in a couple times. I just don’t know what will console me. Like the issue with my friend…I’m loosing track of how many people I’ve asked. I keep thinking of new ways to ask it, new deatils to include, just to be SURE.

 

[LilyM]

Put it this way - if you had a physical illness would you realize the limits of your medical knowledge and trust what your doctors tell you, even if it seems a bit strange or sounds a bit wrong to you? Or would you arrogantly assume your knowledge of their field of expertise to be greater than theirs? Would you feel too scared to ask questions about such an importan matter as your own health? Or would you realize how important t is that you DO ask all the questions that you might have and gain as much knowledge from your doctors as you can, because it might just save you misunderstanding what they say, mistreating the disease and needing a repeat visit!

In the same way, realize that you are not the expert on sin here, and give yourself permission to trust your confessor as well as permission to ask as many questions as you need to for similar reasons as you would of your doctor.

 

[Bookcat]

But…but what if we have gone to a regular confessor, and just still feel sick with sin? That’s my issue. I know my confessor is a kind and understanding priest, but I’ve just agonized after going in a couple times. I just don’t know what will console me. Like the issue with my friend…I’m loosing track of how many people I’ve asked. I keep thinking of new ways to ask it, new deatils to include, just to be SURE.

Such can be “typical” with those who struggle with such. And if you keep asking more and more people --such is likely to just continue.

The Regular confessor who knows your difficulty and who takes responsibility for one – such is the age old practice in the Church. One establishes this relationship with him – discussing that he will take responsibility in guiding you.

One asks him and that is the end. (Unless he says something that is manifestly sinful --like go use birth control or murder his secretary) One does not keep anxiously looking. One is firm with ones self.

Read the above post again – with a firm foot scruples are to be opposed.

 

[InJune]

Yes…I know I need to try…There are a few very devout, traditional Catholics I’ve met who I turn to for advice. I daresay they must be tired of hearing the same thing over and over, but they’re always patient with me, on the occasions I’m too anxious to speak to a priest

 

[InJune]

Such can be “typical” with those who struggle with such. And if you keep asking more and more people --such is likely to just continue.

The Regular confessor who knows your difficulty and who takes responsibility for one – such is the age old practice in the Church. One establishes this relationship with him – discussing that he will take responsibility in guiding you.

One asks him and that is the end. (Unless he says something that is manifestly sinful --like go use birth control or murder his secretary) One does not keep anxiously looking. One is firm with ones self.

Read the above post again – with a firm foot scruples are to be opposed.

Well…what if we aren’t sure our confessor understood? Last time I went to confession, I wrote down my issue with my friend. But I was so scared, I rushed through it. I know I skipped over a lot. I’m not sure he understood everything. Not sure he understood that we still write, not sure he understood my friend’s draw to homosexuality…but before I went in, I prayed that God would allow me to take whatever answer I was given. I’m so torn between taking his answer in light of my prayer, or going in, again.

 

[Bookcat]

Well…what if we aren’t sure our confessor understood? Last time I went to confession, I wrote down my issue with my friend. But I was so scared, I rushed through it. I know I skipped over a lot. I’m not sure he understood everything. Not sure he understood that we still write, not sure he understood my friend’s draw to homosexuality…but before I went in, I prayed that God would allow me to take whatever answer I was given. I’m so torn between taking his answer in light of my prayer, or going in, again.

Know that Such too is a typical fear of many a scrupulous penitent.

“what if he did not understand?”

One can mention it again --and express your fear that he does not understand --he likely will tell you to presume he does…

 

[LilyM]

But…but what if we have gone to a regular confessor, and just still feel sick with sin? That’s my issue. I know my confessor is a kind and understanding priest, but I’ve just agonized after going in a couple times. I just don’t know what will console me. Like the issue with my friend…I’m loosing track of how many people I’ve asked. I keep thinking of new ways to ask it, new deatils to include, just to be SURE.

Isn’t it something the devil would love above almost everything else - for us to be convinced that we are unforgiven because we don’t have the warm fuzzy wuzzies after confession? Well those sort of feelings are the last thing you should trust. What about Christ’s words - ‘whose sins you forgive they are forgiven’? Who are you to deny that He has the power to forgive - and moreover wants to forgive you infinitely more even than you want to be forgiven?

Trust Him if not yourself - and don’t make Him a small petty god who is just itching to play ‘gotcha’ and zap us into the abyss when we give Him the least excuse to do so. We gave Him plenty of excuse in Eden and yet He forgave and came to save those of us who would accept His salvation.

 

[Bookcat]

A “regular confessor” – with the established relationship I mentioned…

“one voice”

Not running from person to person…

(more in the posts above)

 

[LilyM]

Know that Such too is a typical fear of many a scrupulous penitent.

“what if he did not understand?”

One can mention it again --and express your fear that he does not understand --he likely will tell you to presume he does…

And also remember we are confessing TO Christ, who already knows all, THROUGH the priest. As long as we are not deliberately trying to deceive the priest, it actually doesn’t matter so much if he doesn’t understand. Many of us confess to priests who may be a little hard of hearing or whose first language is not English, nonetheless such confessions and absolutions are valid as long as we at least try to make ourselves understood.

 

[InJune]

Well, oftentimes whenI speak to a priest asking if something is a sin, it’s in confession. He welcomes me and blessed me as though I’m in confession, but I might not actually be confessing, just asking. Therefor, there is nothing to “absolve” me from. Is he still in persona christi in this case? It was me going in, he blesses mde, i ask, he answers, we say good evening, and leave.

 

[Bookcat]

Well, oftentimes whenI speak to a priest asking if something is a sin, it’s in confession. He welcomes me and blessed me as though I’m in confession, but I might not actually be confessing, just asking.

“a single voice” not just “a priest” but your confessor in most cases…such is the way forward. Not seeking differing advice but from your regular confessor who knows you and who will take a particular “responsibility” for you…

 

[porthos11]

Well…what if we aren’t sure our confessor understood? Last time I went to confession, I wrote down my issue with my friend. But I was so scared, I rushed through it. I know I skipped over a lot. I’m not sure he understood everything. Not sure he understood that we still write, not sure he understood my friend’s draw to homosexuality…but before I went in, I prayed that God would allow me to take whatever answer I was given. I’m so torn between taking his answer in light of my prayer, or going in, again.

If you’re scrupulous, and you ask what if? Don’t.

What if this thing was a sin? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.
What if it was a mortal sin? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.
What if Father did not understand? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.

If you’ve confessed what you know is a mortal sin and you’ve done your best, you’re fine.

If you’re sure that you’ve committed a mortal sin (not possible mortal sin, not what if?), only then confess it.

However, if Father tells you that you that that is actually not a sin and that you shall not confess it further, you shall not confess it further.

Scrupulous Anonymous actually gives good advice and asks a good question: you keep going back to confession, but have you ever found peace? No, because you are feeding the compulsion. For the scrupulous, the general counsel is this: obey your confessor. If he asks no questions, you must presume he understood. This is especially true if he already knows you are scrupulous.

 

[InJune]

If you’re scrupulous, and you ask what if? Don’t.

What if this thing was a sin? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.
What if it was a mortal sin? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.
What if Father did not understand? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.

If you’ve confessed what you know is a mortal sin and you’ve done your best, you’re fine.

If you’re sure that you’ve committed a mortal sin (not possible mortal sin, not what if?), only then confess it.

However, if Father tells you that you that that is actually not a sin and that you shall not confess it further, you shall not confess it further.

Scrupulous Anonymous actually gives good advice and asks a good question: you keep going back to confession, but have you ever found peace? No, because you are feeding the compulsion. For the scrupulous, the general counsel is this: obey your confessor. If he asks no questions, you must presume he understood. This is especially true if he already knows you are scrupulous.

I try very, very hard to follow this. In some cases, I have even managed! But there are a couple where I KNOW that I’ve left out details, or my understanding of he problem and what I know about the situation has changed quite a bit…On one hand, i suppose God already knew all of this before I went in, but on the other, I feel like, now that I have more knowledge I MUST go ask again!

 

[Bookcat]

If you’re scrupulous, and you ask what if? Don’t.

What if this thing was a sin? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.
What if it was a mortal sin? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.
What if Father did not understand? Don’t confess it. Receive Communion.

If you’ve confessed what you know is a mortal sin and you’ve done your best, you’re fine.

If you’re sure that you’ve committed a mortal sin (not possible mortal sin, not what if?), only then confess it.

However, if Father tells you that you that that is actually not a sin and that you shall not confess it further, you shall not confess it further.
.

I would rather say – they ought bring such questions to their “regular confessor” …he can direct this particular penitent accordingly as needed. He can give them certain “principles” for them to follow (which may be such that those without scruples or even others with such would not follow).

 

[porthos11]

I try very, very hard to follow this. In some cases, I have even managed! But there are a couple where I KNOW that I’ve left out details, or my understanding of he problem and what I know about the situation has changed quite a bit…On one hand, i suppose God already knew all of this before I went in, but on the other, I feel like, now that I have more knowledge I MUST go ask again!

I highly doubt you left out any important details, at least not any that change the integral nature of the confession. Further, if you confessed something and have been absolved in the past, the you discover in your studies that it was more serious that you had thought, you are not to confess it again.

Now if you KNOW you left out something as you said, then confess, and then ask Father, “are there any more details I need to provide?” or “If you need me to tell you more, please question me”. You may also want to ask if you need to repeat any previous confessions. If he says no, or says he has no further questions, then that is the last time you will ever mention that sin, ever. You will not even confess it “devotionally”. Not even knowledge you acquire down the road will ever obligate you to confess that sin again.

For the scrupulous, part of the struggle is actually resisting the inviting comfort of the empty confessional with a priest waiting inside. Often, you actually must say no to Confession. And no matter what, obey your confessor in everything, no exceptions, ifs or buts.

 

[porthos11]

I would rather say – they ought bring such questions to their “regular confessor” …he can direct this particular penitent accordingly as needed. He can give them certain “principles” for them to follow (which may be such that those without scruples or even others with such would not follow).

This is correct. What I posted are more general principles from good organizations like SA but of course the number one principle is obey your confessor.

That’s why I usually state that the scrupulous should stay off these boards.

 

[InJune]

But the issue with me is, I don’t scruple over singular, one instance sins. I scruple about my hobbies, my relatsionships, the things tht are a part of my day to day life. Finding out something new about it surely DOES change it!