In Vitro Fertilization - advice please

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Hi everyone. I am a convert to Catholicism for 5 years now and wouldn’t trade that decision for the world. I grew up as a daughter of a Baptist minister though, so you can imagine how un-Catholic my family is. :rolleyes:

My brother and his wife have been having fertility problems, and I overheard something the other day that led me to believe that they have chosen to do IVF to conceive. The thought makes my stomach turn. I know the heartache of wanting a baby and not being able to have one, but it breaks my heart to think of what they are doing if they go through this procedure. I really can’t interpret what I heard my mom say to them in any other way than that they are going to do IVF (in fact I think they already have), but apparently they want to keep it a secret from the Catholic in the family…

My question is this - if the procedure is a “success” and I soon have a new niece or nephew - how do I react if they make it known that this was how the baby was conceived? I can’t reject the baby of course, but is there a way to let them know I think what they did was wrong, mainly so they don’t think I approve, and still show that I accept and love the baby?

Thanks for any advice!

Nicole
 
Pray for them. Love the child with all your heart. If you feel comfortable you can try talking to your family about how in IVF embryos that aren’t implanted are destroyed etc, and how this is equivelent to abortion. Just don’t drive a wedge between yourself and the rest of your family that can never be removed. Always act with charity being your primary concern. Though sometimes acting with charity may mean biting your tongue. If you do talk with them, say a prayer and ask the Holy Spirit for help with what youare about to say.
 
lil flower:
My brother and his wife have been having fertility problems, and I … believe that they have chosen to do IVF to conceive. …but apparently they want to keep it a secret from the Catholic in the family… My question is this - if the procedure is a “success” and I soon have a new niece or nephew - how do I react if they make it known that this was how the baby was conceived?
Love the baby and your brother and sister in law. Pray for them. The fact they are trying to keep from you indicates to me that they know it isn’t right, you don’t need to tell them again.
I’d cast a stone, but I can’t see because of this plank in my eye… LOL
 
I agree with the others. Love the babies. I have a friend who is Catholic and her husband is Jewish. They have two beautiful girls through IVF. When they came to visit us in CA this past winter it was hard for me at first. (It was the first time I saw all of them for a long time and the first time ever I met the children). The children were very easy to love. After all they are children of God, but I kept wondering how many more babies they have waiting to be born at the lab.

That is the tragedy.

In one of the last Faith and Family magazines they had an article on “adoption” of those fetuses that are “conceived” at the lab, but are not going to be born by the parents. I wanted to ask my friend how many more babies they have wating for them, but the Holy Spirit put a hand over my mouth.
 
Gosh, this one really is a heartbreaker. I have a co-worker at a very small business (so we have a lot of contact) whose 9 month old son was conceived via IVF. He’s a generally softspoken, even gentle fellow, but the callousness with which he talks about this sets my teeth on edge.

The real kicker is that his wife is the recipient of a heart transplant, so even that pregnancy was an unknown risk, so they’re not planning on ever bringing the 12 (!) emrbryos they “have on ice” (his words) to term. Moreover, he’ll be getting a vasectomy within the week to ensure the impossibility thereof, even given the previous difficulty they had conceiving in the first place.

So, what to do? How to approach this nominal Catholic about the depths of his faith? Is it even appropriate to do so?
 
I would try to get them to change their mind and chose adoption instead. Find out when they believe life begins & if it is anything other than the embryo at it’s single cell stage whether inside or outside of the womb, then debate them on this until they understand.

I heard this about IVF - it takes on average the creation of 14 embryo’s to get success from just one of them. Therefore for each success story through IVF, on average 13 lives are destroyed.

Ask them which 13 family members would they chose to be dead for the survival of just 1? Good Luck & I will be praying for you.

Another excellent website for IVF questions are at…

ewtn.com/vexperts/conference.htm
 
Love the baby…without God, this baby cannot come to be. Just as the man and wife can’t take credit for a normal conception alone, God is present in the conception of an IVF baby. The most amazing scientist cannot create life without God.

Many couples who struggle with the constant agony of infertility come to a faith crisis as a result. Certainly adoption is an option, but not for everyone. IVF is never a first-step choice for infertile couples. And it can be done with a huge regard for human life (i.e, monitored cycles to ensure that no “extra” eggs are harvested or embryos created). Or, in the case of fertility drugs, monitoring cycles with ultrasound technology to know that if more eggs are created than can be safely carried, the couple abstains.

There are many high-tech procedures to assist in fertility without jumping to the conclusion that IVF is involved. In fact, even jumping to the conclusion that people on birth control pills are not trying to have children is in error – many are prescribed them to encourage a hormonal response that increases the chances of conception within the marriage bond.

I would liken this to adultery or promiscuity – if this was a child born out of wedlock, flouting God’s call for chastity, you could still love the child even though it was born under sinful circumstances. NEVER take the conditions of birth out on a child.

As far as talking to your brother about the sinfulness of IVF…1) you don’t know he’s doing it, 2) he may have already done it, in which case, what are you gaining besides driving a stake in his heart? and 3) hopefully you can be this child’s godmother and help give her a strong religious upbringing.

Laura
 
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justLaura:
Love the baby…without God, this baby cannot come to be. Just as the man and wife can’t take credit for a normal conception alone, God is present in the conception of an IVF baby. The most amazing scientist cannot create life without God.

Many couples who struggle with the constant agony of infertility come to a faith crisis as a result. Certainly adoption is an option, but not for everyone. IVF is never a first-step choice for infertile couples. And it can be done with a huge regard for human life (i.e, monitored cycles to ensure that no “extra” eggs are harvested or embryos created). Or, in the case of fertility drugs, monitoring cycles with ultrasound technology to know that if more eggs are created than can be safely carried, the couple abstains.

There are many high-tech procedures to assist in fertility without jumping to the conclusion that IVF is involved. In fact, even jumping to the conclusion that people on birth control pills are not trying to have children is in error – many are prescribed them to encourage a hormonal response that increases the chances of conception within the marriage bond.

I would liken this to adultery or promiscuity – if this was a child born out of wedlock, flouting God’s call for chastity, you could still love the child even though it was born under sinful circumstances. NEVER take the conditions of birth out on a child.

As far as talking to your brother about the sinfulness of IVF…1) you don’t know he’s doing it, 2) he may have already done it, in which case, what are you gaining besides driving a stake in his heart? and 3) hopefully you can be this child’s godmother and help give her a strong religious upbringing.

Laura
Laura, I understand what you are saying here, but my problem is that IVF is immoral no matter what the reasons for doing so. I believe life begins at the point where the egg is fertilized and so by forcing this to happen in vitro, any couple doing so is in effect forcing God’s hand, a serious matter. My problem is this: IF (maybe they won’t) they bring to my attention that they had the baby via IVF, I can’t in good conscience act as if I think that’s wonderful - they’ve deeply offended God and I don’t think that’s wonderful. Acting as if it were great would be scandalous in a way (I think) since they might think it was ok with me, though I claim to be a good Catholic, and it might blunt their consciences in the matter if that makes sense. However, I would never, ever take this out on the child and that’s my dilemna, how to express love and acceptance for the baby and not approve of the sin committed. Being Catholic (they are Protestant) I won’t be able to be the child’s godmother, though I will pray for him/her all the time of course. I would never stop loving a child for any reason.

Nicole
 
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Tom:
Love the baby and your brother and sister in law. Pray for them. The fact they are trying to keep from you indicates to me that they know it isn’t right, you don’t need to tell them again.
I’d cast a stone, but I can’t see because of this plank in my eye… LOL
Lol, I know what you are saying here. I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou, I’m just worried about my Catholic example to them IF they make it known to me that this is how the baby was conceived. I’m afraid of appearing to them as if I approve of the procedure because I don’t say something (again, if the issue arises). Yet, the feeling that something should be said worries me also because I in no way want to suggest that the baby/babies shouldn’t exist.

Thanks,
Nicole
 
lil flower said:
IF (maybe they won’t) they bring to my attention that they had the baby via IVF, I can’t in good conscience act as if I think that’s wonderful - they’ve deeply offended God and I don’t think that’s wonderful. Acting as if it were great would be scandalous in a way (I think) since they might think it was ok with me, though I claim to be a good Catholic, and it might blunt their consciences in the matter if that makes sense.

Nicole – I understand your dilemma, I really do. That said, I know many many couples who go through IVF as strict Catholics and agonize over their weakness in not being able to abide by God’s plan. However, as you well know…not every Christian feels the same way about IVF. Since you understand that in their moral framework IVF is acceptible, and as long as they are not putting embryos at risk or waste, I think that in order to foster a loving relationship with your brother and potential niece/nephew, this is one of those times where the less said the better. Changing their mind after the fact is not going to accomplish anything, and if it does one thing, it will likely make the gap between you wider. You can separate the act from the child, and love the sinner if not the sin. However, if you cannot communicate that well to them, they may likely decide that you have condemned the child as well as the method of conception.

In this situation, I would tread lightly.
 
lil flower:
Hi everyone. I am a convert to Catholicism for 5 years now and wouldn’t trade that decision for the world. I grew up as a daughter of a Baptist minister though, so you can imagine how un-Catholic my family is. :rolleyes:

My brother and his wife have been having fertility problems, and I overheard something the other day that led me to believe that they have chosen to do IVF to conceive. The thought makes my stomach turn. I know the heartache of wanting a baby and not being able to have one, but it breaks my heart to think of what they are doing if they go through this procedure. I really can’t interpret what I heard my mom say to them in any other way than that they are going to do IVF (in fact I think they already have), but apparently they want to keep it a secret from the Catholic in the family…

My question is this - if the procedure is a “success” and I soon have a new niece or nephew - how do I react if they make it known that this was how the baby was conceived? I can’t reject the baby of course, but is there a way to let them know I think what they did was wrong, mainly so they don’t think I approve, and still show that I accept and love the baby?

Thanks for any advice!

Nicole
I think the Catholic position is that a husband, wife and God cooperate in creating a child. If God cooperated by providing a soul, what’s the problem?
 
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Ken:
I think the Catholic position is that a husband, wife and God cooperate in creating a child. If God cooperated by providing a soul, what’s the problem?
Not exactly. We know on average 14 embryo’s have to be created for one to continue to live successfully. Knowing this let me ask you this question —

Give me the names of 13 members in your family you would sacrafice their lives in order to add just 1 more member to your family? This is what IVF is all about!
 
I know a couple who had two children by IVF with donor eggs. She was mid-40s when she married for the second time. She had two adult children by a prior marriage, but her husband was an only child and had never been married before. She had her first IVF child at 49 and second IVF child at 51 and is nursing at 52! The second child was “conceived” in the test tube at the same time as the first child but was a frozen embryo for two years. My blood curdled at the thought. How is this woman going to tell her children the story of their heritage? How are they going to feel? What kind of society encourages IVF, donor eggs, frozen embryos, surrogate mothers?

There was an article in today’s NYTimes about Michael Douglas’ ex-wife who never married her boyfriend (so as not to lose the 6-figure alimony from Michael Douglas) but contracted (when she was in her late 40s) with a surrogate mother to have children. The surrogate produced twin boys but Ms. Douglas was not happy and started adoption proceedings to adopt a Russian girl baby. The twins are less than a year old and the couple is “breaking up” and Ms. Douglas (who is neither the ex-wife of the father nor the biological mother of the children) is suing for custody.

What selfishness our society tolerates–aided by our technology!

I know this does not address the original question except to agree with the sentiments and moral concerns.
 
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Ken:
I think the Catholic position is that a husband, wife and God cooperate in creating a child. If God cooperated by providing a soul, what’s the problem?
The cooperation of spouses and God must be within a completed act of sexual intercourse.

Each sex act must be both unitive and procreative. To deliberately remove the procreative side (contraception) is instrinsically disordered. Equally so is removing the unitive dimension of the sex act.

Disassociating reproduction from the act of intercourse violates the unitive element. IVF and all other such technologies (surrogacy) are not acts of intercourse, and are therefore intrinsically disordered use of the marital faculties. Marital rape is also a violation of the unitive element and a mortal sin.

A completed act of intercourse is the only moral way spouses cooperate with God.

Medical interventions which correct a defect and then allow a completed act of intercourse (such as surgery to repair a fallopian tube and clear a blockage, or fertility drugs that help a woman ovulate) are moral options. IVF is not.
 
I am currently facing the same situation that you are within my own family. A few years ago, when this family member told me that they were considering ‘invitro’ as an option to fertility problems, I openly expressed my concerns about it and informed them why I was against it. Three tries later, with one baby being killed rather than being frozen, they are now expecting as a result of invitro fertilization. This family member keeps referring to the embroyes as ‘tiny cells’ and becomes very quiet when I rephrase what they are saying to be tiny babies. At one point, while they were undergoing the process, I asked the question “At what stage of development did Jesus become a person?” Thankfully, at least from what I have been told, during this last cycle, no more innocent lives were deliberately taken or frozen - this couple has major fertility problems and only a few eggs were fertilized during the process. Many family members are angry at me for not being supportive of them while they were undergoing invitro, but as hard as it has been, I could not deny my faith and openly encouraged them to consider adoption throughout it. Now that there is an innocent life on his/her way, I am being supportive of the pregnancy for this life is a gift from God and needs to be treated as such. I encourage you to pray and ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom and council on what to say and what not to say to them. Masses can also be offered for all of the innocent lives that have been affected by this procedure. Most importantly, keep praying for them to come to the truth on this situation.
 
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ProLifeAction:
Information on IVF: all.org/a2z-i.htm

Also see:
%between%
Just an aside…

Although ALL is a good organization, they sometimes leave out some important information and distinctions that are drawn by the Church on these issues. As to why, I really have no idea, but I have noticed in the past that sometimes they “leave out part of story” leading to an incomplete picture of what the Church teaches.

For detailed and complete explanations, I highly recommend Donum Vitae from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
 
That is a super hard one, but just pray about it. If they tell you, you could show your disgust on your face and they will probably ask you about it. Or you could just pull them aside one day and just talk about it. Tell them that you love life soooo much and that is why you are horrified that they would create and kill their own children until one was born. Yeah that might not be a good idea, but that is what I would want to say…hehehe. But a good serious heart to heart talk would help. They probably don’t even know that they killed some of their children. It would be a good thing for them to find out, so that they may hopefully confess.
 
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