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Chris_LaRock
Guest
Does the Roman Catholic Church still offer to get people’s dead loved ones out of purgatory for a price?
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ChiFaithful
Guest
No. Can you please be more condescending? That way, it will be easier to ban you.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
Could I get an answer from someone who isn’t being rude, please? 
BTW, only a moderator can ban people from the site. I rarely come on here anyway, due to the hostile reactions I get for asking honest questions.
BTW, only a moderator can ban people from the site. I rarely come on here anyway, due to the hostile reactions I get for asking honest questions.
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tdandh26
Guest
The Church, never made that claim. While there were priests in the late 14 and earily 15 hundreds who were selling indulgences, it was not approved by the Church. What the Chruch does do is offer prayers for the dead so that their final purification from the stain of sin may be lessened through our intercession. The Chruch which Jesus gave the promise of “Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven” has this authority. Remember also that nothing unclean can get into heaven and we who are all of us sinners and fall short of the Glory of God would not enter unless we were purified in purgatory. Since we are all one in Christ, as per His promise, we can pray for the dead.
All of this is Biblical, which is from the Catholic Church, you know the same Church Jesus established by His death on the Cross, the one that the gates of hell shall not prevail against, the only one that teaches what the earily christians believed. Many have tried to destroy her, mostly from those within, but hey wasn’t it one of those closest to Jesus who betrayed Him, thus Jesus tells us if they persecuted Him they will persecute His Church as well.
All of this is Biblical, which is from the Catholic Church, you know the same Church Jesus established by His death on the Cross, the one that the gates of hell shall not prevail against, the only one that teaches what the earily christians believed. Many have tried to destroy her, mostly from those within, but hey wasn’t it one of those closest to Jesus who betrayed Him, thus Jesus tells us if they persecuted Him they will persecute His Church as well.
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Chris_LaRock
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In other words, the individuals selling indulgances in the way I described were acting independantly, and not with the official endorsement of the Church?
That would make sense.
That would make sense.
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St.Eric
Guest
I second this post. The “selling” of indulgences was never sanctioned by the Church. It was an abuse by some members of the clergy.
BTW. I didn’t take your question as rude or condescending. Even if it were meant to be that way it really doesn’t bother me much. I am secure enough in our Catholic faith that I am not easily shaken. So, ask away brother!
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St.Eric
Guest
Chris LaRock:
Exactly. It was an abuse- not a doctrine.
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Batjacboy
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Chris LaRock:
Not with the official endorsement or approval of the Church, and contrary to the Church’s teaching and intent.
Exactly.
Not with the official endorsement or approval of the Church, and contrary to the Church’s teaching and intent.
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CollegeKid
Guest
Chris LaRock:
ChiFaithful:
Chris LaRock:
What you’re getting from us isn’t rudeness and “hostile reactions”, and you aren’t “asking honest questions.” You’re coming here and trying to pick a fight by asking a question in an incredibly-biased manner.
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kleary
Guest
Sadly enough, though some people here claim that the sale of indulgences were not officially sanctioned by the Church were morally wrong to do. The sale of indulgences were sanctioned and it was a wrong thing to do. The money was used to build and maintain St. Peter’s basillica in Rome.
This however does not negate the dogma of Purgatory and obtaining indulgences to lessen your time there or the time of others who are already there.
Ken
This however does not negate the dogma of Purgatory and obtaining indulgences to lessen your time there or the time of others who are already there.
Ken
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Mike_D30
Guest
I’m Catholic but I am not certain how true this is. I do believe that the Church not only approved of selling indulgences, but made their Churches do it in order to raise money for St. Peter’s Bascillica.
It’s hard to imagine that Martin Luther broke off from the Church during the Protestant Reformation over something as simple as Bishops or Priests abusing their power. If it wasn’t approved by the Church and Pope there wouldn’t have been a reformation over a misunderstanding, as the Pope would’ve put Martin Luther’s heart at ease by stating the selling of indulgences is not to be practiced.
Let’s not pretend the selling of indulgences wasn’t practiced, my Mother claims they would sell indulgences to her in Catholic school to raise money, so it’s been part of the Church for many centuries.
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Batjacboy
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From the article in my first post:
"Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.
One never could “buy” indulgences. The financial scandal around indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms-indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation [e.g., the building of St. Peter’s] was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences."
If, in fact, you believe that the Church officially sanctioned the **sale ** of indulgences, please provide a reputable source to support this belief, and your statement.
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Batjacboy
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The indulgence could only be gained through an act of penance, i.e., a sacrifice. It could be prayers, fasting, etc., and at the time of the building of St. Peter’s, the voluntary donation of an amount of money that would constitute a sacrifice, an amount known only to one who gave.
The abuse came in setting a **fixed ** amount, and having that amount donated by those for whom it was no sacrifice: therefore, no indulgence was truly obtained: no proper intent, no indulgence gained. The Church never sanctioned this practice.
The Church never approved the “selling” of indulgences.
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Mike_D30
Guest
Batjacboy,
The Catholic Church didn’t do away with selling indulgences until the Council of Trent and the Counter Reformation. To think they didn’t sell indulgences from direction from Rome before then, is re-writing history. I mean what was the Protestant Reformation about? The selling of indulgences was definite Church practice, and the main cause of the Protestant Reformation.
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Batjacboy
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Fidelis
Guest
If your mother is accurate her recollection, it only means that someone was abusing their position without the official sanction of the Church. Only the Pope can grant indulgences for specific occasions. Fundraising for a Catholic school would hardly qualify.
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Batjacboy
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Not according to the link in my last post.
Please provide a reputable source to back up the claim that they were sold “from direction from Rome.”
Read Luther’s 95 theses. Only about a third deal with indulgences, and there was a lot more to the Reformation than indulgences. But Luther had every right to object to the local abuse of selling indulgences.
That doesn’t justify the statement that they were sold “from direction from Rome.”
Please quote a source.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
You know, I can just see the threads 200 years from now asking if the Church continues to sanction the abuse of minors. . .
And people will say that abuse is NOT the teaching of the church.
And others will respond that hey, if it was NOT, then how come Cardinal Law got a cushy job. . .
how come the Pope never “stopped it” when he “knew all about it”. . .
and of COURSE it is all because the abusers couldn’t have “wimmin” and just went all sex starved. . .
Etc.
One poster provided an excellent article from our very own CA library that explained exactly what happened when, how, and by whom. . .
and yet we still hear, “the church DID TOO sell indulgences and it does even TODAY, you big cover-uppers you”.
All part and parcel of the suffering of the Church. We know we’re going to get persecuted, falsely accused, beaten, spat upon, even pilloried and crucified. . .just like our Founder.
Sad, because so many people actually cannot get past the anti-Catholicism drummed into their heads since infancy–and even sadder that sometimes it was drummed in by CATHOLICS who should have known better. . .
Fulton Sheen was spot on in his famous quote about how millions condemn the Church without ever knowing what the Church is. . .
And people will say that abuse is NOT the teaching of the church.
And others will respond that hey, if it was NOT, then how come Cardinal Law got a cushy job. . .
how come the Pope never “stopped it” when he “knew all about it”. . .
and of COURSE it is all because the abusers couldn’t have “wimmin” and just went all sex starved. . .
Etc.
One poster provided an excellent article from our very own CA library that explained exactly what happened when, how, and by whom. . .
and yet we still hear, “the church DID TOO sell indulgences and it does even TODAY, you big cover-uppers you”.
All part and parcel of the suffering of the Church. We know we’re going to get persecuted, falsely accused, beaten, spat upon, even pilloried and crucified. . .just like our Founder.
Sad, because so many people actually cannot get past the anti-Catholicism drummed into their heads since infancy–and even sadder that sometimes it was drummed in by CATHOLICS who should have known better. . .
Fulton Sheen was spot on in his famous quote about how millions condemn the Church without ever knowing what the Church is. . .
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Mike_D30
Guest
Just read any reputable historian on the Protestant Reformation. The Pope authorized the selling of indulgences, call it alms giving, call it whatever you want. The Catholic Church sanctioned the selling of indulgences. I don’t like talking to Mormons when they try to rewrite history, I dislike it even more when Catholics do it. We sold indulgences, it was wrong, and we don’t do it anymore.
"Sale of Indulgences. The RC hierarchy also claimed to have access to a repository of “excess good deeds” performed by the saints which could be used to liberate souls from Purgatory before the expiration of their appointed sentence there. The good deeds which saints of the Church had performed in excess of those that were required of them to enter Heaven, went into a sort of bank account which could be drawn upon by the Church to make up for the lack of good deeds by those who were less virtuous than saints, and who, therefore, found themselves in Purgatory.
When the Church found itself in need of funds to complete the building of St. Peter’s Cathedral in Rome, it sent out salesmen to regional fairs and pilgrimage sites to sell indulgences. Indulgences were printed up by intinerant printers using the newly invented printing presses of the time. It is said, even, that the first advertising jingle of modern times comes from this period. Roughly translated it reads: “When a coin into the coinbox rings, a soul from Purgatory soon will spring.” Such excesses constituted the spark that ignited the Reformation. "
humboldt.edu/~wh1/466.Reformation/466.RCDoctrine.html#indulgences
I know indulgences weren’t the ‘only’ reason for the reformation, but it was the major reason. Without indulgences the reformation never happens.
If we didn’t sell indulgences, there’s no need to address the issue and stop sanctioning the practice during the Council or Trent and Counter-Reformmation.
I don’t like arguing counter to the Catholic position, so I won’t, but I think spinning and denial just muddies the waters, and is disingenuous.
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