Jesus meant it when he said there would be division in families

[creedseebas]

It makes me so angry to hear the people that are supposed to be closest to me say things, which are so wrong. I see them show their true colors. It makes me so angry to see that my parents and my other family members show a truly liberal side when it comes to their Catholic faith. First they start talking about how it should be aloud for a priest to be married if he decides that he wants to. Then what really makes me mad is when they start to debate me over the subject of the Eucharist. I say that it is just as much the lay people’s fault if they ar enot well instructed in the faith as it is the priests and bishops fault. I held that you cannot lay the blame on them with the argument that the position of teacher of faith and doctrine only belongs to them. That is completely unbiblical and wrong! It says in the Bible that each and every Christian should know his faith and know it well, so that if they were to be challenged they wouldn’t just be able to keep their faith but tpo explain it to the other in a way that they understand it. The family emmbers which I talk about do not agree with me on that point. They believe that each person has their own job and that it is the job of the priests and bishops to know the faith as it is the job of a lawyer to know the law and neither should be required to know the field of study of the other. That is so wrong and unbiblical! Every Christian should know his faith and know it extremely well. The difference is that when a lawyer does his job as someone who defends the law, a priest or bishop does his job at GUIDING AND DECIDING on matters of the faith. Never has it been know that it was the job of the clergy alone to know and teach th efaith. My relatives believe that the fact that they don’t know well their faith is the fault of the clergy as if it were expected of the clergy to teach them their faith. That is so wrong and unbiblical!!! Every Christian must know his faith. A sheperd does not teach a sheep how to be a sheep, he merely guides the sheep into greener fields. It is the sheep who by instinct should learn how to eat the grass, walk, and follow its leader to survive. This is the typical attitude of pointing the finger at someone else for the blame. There is such a horrible ideology in the world today that the clergy should be fixing things and that the laity should just sit back and wait for the church to be fixed, and if the church is not fixed that it is the fault of the clergy because they did not “do their job.” That is absurd. God will bless his clergy for withstanding all this hypocrisy from many of these lay members, while He will judge these lay members for not picking up a Bible and Catechism and begin reading. This idea of auto-education of religion is not a new thing. It’s beginnings are found in the Bible when St. Peter told us that we must know our religion well enough to defend and explain it to those who challenge it. These people have bee spoiled by the clergy and now refuse to grow up! Like little babies who’s mother took away the bottle, they act as if they can’t or at any point weren’t able to pick up a Bible and read it! The clergy may have responsibility for some of the blame but let’s not forget that we CANNOT expect anything of themselves which we ourselves are not ready to do. We are just as much to blame for any problems in our modern day church as any of the clergy. We hold responsibility too. It just makes me so mad to hear these herecies being talked by members of my own family! I feel betrayed. What’s worse is that since I was the only one holding my point, they would all keep interrupting me and I never got my whole viewpoint across. I guess He meant it when Jesus said he was coming for division and not peace.

 

[rfk]

You sound very upset and frustrated, and I understand why you feel so betrayed.

First, to address the main point about education in the faith, it is clearly the parents duty to do so.

All quotes are from the Cathechism of the Catholic Church, found at usccb.org/catechism/text/index.htm
CCC 2223:

Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children…

CCC 2225:

Through the grace of the sacrament of marriage, parents receive the responsibility and privilege of evangelizing their children. Parents should initiate their children at an early age into the mysteries of the faith of which they are the “first heralds” for their children. They should associate them from their tenderest years with the life of the Church…

CCC 2226:

Education in the faith by the parents should begin in the child’s earliest years. … Family catechesis precedes, accompanies, and enriches other forms of instruction in the faith.

CCC 2252:

Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children in the faith, prayer, and all the virtues. They have the duty to provide as far as possible for the physical and spiritual needs of their children.

CCC 2685:

The Christian family is the first place of education in prayer. Based on the sacrament of marriage, the family is the “domestic church” where God’s children learn to pray “as the Church” and to persevere in prayer.

CCC 2221:

The fecundity of conjugal love cannot be reduced solely to the procreation of children, but must extend to their moral education and their spiritual formation. “The role of parents in education is of such importance that it is almost impossible to provide an adequate substitute.” The right and the duty of parents to educate their children are primordial and inalienable.

Now, Catholicism is rarely boils down to “either/or” or these questions, but is often “both/and”. In this case, the Bishops also have a responsibility to guide their flock.
CCC 939:

Helped by the priests, their co-workers, and by the deacons, the bishops have the duty of authentically teaching the faith, celebrating divine worship, above all the Eucharist, and guiding their Churches as true pastors. Their responsibility also includes concern for all the Churches, with and under the Pope.

Finally, childhood cathechesis – even good cathechesis – is never sufficient. For example, the dear old nuns did a pretty good job of teaching me the basics of the faith. However, they taught the concepts in ways that made sense to a child.

When I became a man and started facing life’s challenges, I found that a childlike understanding of the faith was not sufficient to meet these needs. For example, after I became married and a father, I needed to grow in my understanding and appreciation for the Church’s teachings on family and married life.

Just like everything in life, my parents were responsible for taking care of me as a child. Once I became a man, I had to take responsibility for all things in my life, and care for myself. This obviously includes the duty to continue learning and growing in my understanding of the Faith.

So what your family is really trying to argue is someone should have taught them as a child. Now they will spend their life blaming others instead of accepting responsibility for growing in education and faith to meet their own responsibilities.

Now that you are probably feeling pretty self-justified, let me add a major caution.

You still have the responsibility to honor your parents. In this case, it means handling the situation with charity and respect. It means that you will find it unfruitful to try to “battle them” into agreeing with you. Converts are never won by force. Your best weapons in converting them will be example and prayer.

Good luck to you. It is nice to see a young person on fire for their faith.

 

[The_Barrister]

Point well made.

This illustrates the fact that it is up to all of us to evangelize, particularly within our own family and faith. Sheep stray from the field, and what’s wrong with another sheep guiding the lost sheep back to the field when the shepherd’s back is turned?

Liturgical dance? Married priests? Abortion? Eucharist is not the Body of Christ? Get your answers ready. Don’t argue or preach - discuss the issue rationally, and when the other person gets argumentative, gently guide him or her back to the issue at hand. Don’t allow the discussion to degenerate into a squabble!

Choose your issues carefully, one at a time. Practice with the easiest issues first. The typical response to such a discussion is for the apostate to drag in EVERYTHING they hate about the Church, or EVERY liberalization, and turn immediately to the toughest topics. Don’t allow the discussion to stray to other issues. Stick with one topic and give room for the Holy Spirit to work.

What if each of us were to evangelize just one other person? What if the more persuasive among us were to evangelize five other people? How beautiful would that be?

This was also posted to the other thread.

 

[george_eastlake]

Coming back to the church after 27 years was a real suprise. I was like a new catholic, I mean I may as well have been a convert because I didn’t remember all that much from gradeschool.(Our catholic schools by the way aren’t very catholic. Does anyone share this sentiment? My young children don’t even go to mass once a week at their school) Any way I decided that I would teach my kids the real version and part of the success I have had to date is the fact that I don’t teach them like I’m teaching kids. I teach them tougher things and push them to understand. By tougher , I mean authentic. At the school they go to now, It’s all, Jesus loves you, love your neighbor and every religion is as good as the next. Blah, Blah Blah. We really need to get religious back into teaching at our schools. TheRe is an awesome new order “Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharest in Michigan. They start out every day with mass, the school has a chapel in the middle of it and holy images all over. I wish they’d come to cleve. Anyway, after returning to the church, I felt like an outsider around my so-called catholic family. They have their own notions and play pick and choose. It’s amazing but true. People just don’t want to repent or feel it’s too late to re-state their positions in life. Isn’t conversion forever. My one sister doesn’t believe in the real presence or the bodily ressurection or Mary’s virginity and is a feminist who hates patrology and my other sister thinks that even the people in hell will be going to heaven at the end of time. My other younger sister age 30 doesn’t believe much of anything and says"that all was such a long time ago” when I asked her if she believed Jesus died for our sins.

I used to end up arguing with them, but then I realized that a well educated catholic can just smile nod his head and say" Well no actually that is not correct, let me tell you how it…" I studied my behind off for four years and continue to this day. Another thing I found really great is prayer in the home.Me and my kids pray a rosary each night. I’m married to a non catholic and I think that by osmosis she is benefitting, as she sits upstairs and watches or hears us pray. (I explained this to my daughter when she asked what osmosis was and I said it’s kind of like second hand smoke but in a good way. Oh well. But it’s true, we have to radically transform ourselves to Jesus and teach and pray for those who are misguided. Actually we have so many catholics who’s only exposure to the church is at mass and priests just sugar coat everything, and everything is warm and fuzzy… Our priest doesn’t even show the consecrated host during the Agnus Dei (THIS IS THE LAMB OF GOD…) When I asked him why, he said that he didn’t know he was supposed to.(he holds up the whole paten) Now I don’t know technically if he has to but I never saw a priest do otherwise. I can honestly say that in four years I have yet to hear a good homily at a local parish. o.k. maybe one or two but it’s really bad. Anyone watch a homily from those priests at EWTN? NOW THAT’S A HOMILY!!! Peace and love always

George