Laity raising right arm in blessing

[AWall]

Hi there! I’ve searched for an answer for this but haven’t found one so my apologies if this has been asked before. During the Rite of Scrutinies at Mass is it ok for the laity to be extending their right arm in blessing over the elect with the Priest? I’m a little uncomfortable doing it (moreso for personal reasons) but my husband is uncomfortable because he said he feels like it’s a priestly gesture.

We’re not trying to be nit-picky, we want to make sure it’s okay…if it is, great.

Thank you for the help.

Andrea

 

[johnnykins]

AWall:

Hi there! I’ve searched for an answer for this but haven’t found one so my apologies if this has been asked before. During the Rite of Scrutinies at Mass is it ok for the laity to be extending their right arm in blessing over the elect with the Priest? I’m a little uncomfortable doing it (moreso for personal reasons) but my husband is uncomfortable because he said he feels like it’s a priestly gesture.

We’re not trying to be nit-picky, we want to make sure it’s okay…if it is, great.

Thank you for the help.

Andrea

I don’t know. But since anything seems to go, I suggest that the entire congregation engage in the “Wave” beginning at the right front of the church, going around the church 3 times (to honor the Trinity) and ending in 3 “hooah” cheers to demonstrate our siblinghood with an extended passing of the Peace. Milk and honey service to conclude.

 

[m134e5]

AWall:

Hi there! I’ve searched for an answer for this but haven’t found one so my apologies if this has been asked before. During the Rite of Scrutinies at Mass is it ok for the laity to be extending their right arm in blessing over the elect with the Priest? I’m a little uncomfortable doing it (moreso for personal reasons) but my husband is uncomfortable because he said he feels like it’s a priestly gesture.

This is a priestly gesture- one we don’t need to do- we cannot give priestly blessings. It also looks like the congregation is sticking their hands out like a bunch of Nazis- imagine if someone with a strong anti-Catholic background went to Mass for the first time, but walked in late when everybody was doing that. My background was not anti-Catholic, but I would have turned around and left had I seen that. We need to be more attentive to what our gestures mean to others.

 

[AWall]

m134e5:

This is a priestly gesture- one we don’t need to do- we cannot give priestly blessings. It also looks like the congregation is sticking their hands out like a bunch of Nazis- imagine if someone with a strong anti-Catholic background went to Mass for the first time, but walked in late when everybody was doing that. My background was not anti-Catholic, but I would have turned around and left had I seen that. We need to be more attentive to what our gestures mean to others.

When I mentioned that I had personal reasons I was uncomfortable, they are b/c of what you mentioned.

Thank you for clarifying this for us. I’m sure we’ll be asked again to do this next Sunday.

Andrea

 

[AWall]

johnnykins:

I don’t know. But since anything seems to go, I suggest that the entire congregation engage in the “Wave” beginning at the right front of the church, going around the church 3 times (to honor the Trinity) and ending in 3 “hooah” cheers to demonstrate our siblinghood with an extended passing of the Peace. Milk and honey service to conclude.

Well, I’m sure that’s not far off as our homily last week was about nuns drinking and dancing with married Native American chiefs (they converted b/c of it) and an Irish man going to heaven b/c he told good jokes. The point was to be joyful, I think. And no, there is not another church we can go to right now, and we are about ready to give up. I almost walked out of the service last week.

Andrea

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

AWall:

Hi there! I’ve searched for an answer for this but haven’t found one so my apologies if this has been asked before. During the Rite of Scrutinies at Mass is it ok for the laity to be extending their right arm in blessing over the elect with the Priest? I’m a little uncomfortable doing it (moreso for personal reasons) but my husband is uncomfortable because he said he feels like it’s a priestly gesture.

We’re not trying to be nit-picky, we want to make sure it’s okay…if it is, great.

Thank you for the help.

Andrea

No it’s not correct to do this, you will not find anything like that in the Rite.

 

[johnnykins]

AWall:

Well, I’m sure that’s not far off as our homily last week was about nuns drinking and dancing with married Native American chiefs (they converted b/c of it) and an Irish man going to heaven b/c he told good jokes. The point was to be joyful, I think. And no, there is not another church we can go to right now, and we are about ready to give up. I almost walked out of the service last week.

Andrea

I know. Courage.

 

[frommi]

Br. Rich SFO:

No it’s not correct to do this, you will not find anything like that in the Rite.

You won’t find a prohibition on it either.

 

[johnnykins]

Br. Rich SFO:

No it’s not correct to do this, you will not find anything like that in the Rite.

Yeah, well it’s not prohibited either. No where does it say “don’t give the Nazi salute” now does it?

Personally I think the Wave idea was better. Think we can get folks to use it? Maybe we could relate it to a “smudge smoke” service?

 

[johnnykins]

johnnykins:

Yeah, well it’s not prohibited either. No where does it say “don’t give the Nazi salute” now does it?

Personally I think the Wave idea was better. Think we can get folks to use it? Maybe we could relate it to a “smudge smoke” service?

Frommi - right on cue!!!

 

[frommi]

johnnykins:

Frommi - right on cue!!!

Take it easy…I mean I guess people could interpret extending your arms in blessing as a Nazi salute…some yahoo could interpret us as a bunch of cannibals for eating Jesus too…but a logical person takes the gesture at face value and moves on.

 

[johnnykins]

frommi:

Take it easy…I mean I guess people could interpret extending your arms in blessing as a Nazi salute…some yahoo could interpret us as a bunch of cannibals for eating Jesus too…but a logical person takes the gesture at face value and moves on./QUOT

I’m taking it easy. Show me where the Nazi salute is prohibited. That’s the same logic you’re using. You just don’t like getting called on it. Amazingly, you sent your message while I was typing mine - That I anticipated your response just shows the triteness of your argument.

 

[frommi]

johnnykins:

frommi:

Take it easy…I mean I guess people could interpret extending your arms in blessing as a Nazi salute…some yahoo could interpret us as a bunch of cannibals for eating Jesus too…but a logical person takes the gesture at face value and moves on.[/QUOT

I’m taking it easy. Show me where the Nazi salute is prohibited. That’s the same logic you’re using. You just don’t like getting called on it. Amazingly, you sent your message while I was typing mine - That I anticipated your response just shows the triteness of your argument.

I was responding to a post that said “This is not found in the rite”, but at the same time it is not prohibited by the rite either.

An assembly being invited to pray over the elect does not seem harmful or ‘aliturgical’ to me. Nor does it seem like the priest is being usurped in some way.

Show me where in the rubrics your given permission to be so uncharitable.

[/quote]

 

[johnnykins]

frommi:

johnnykins:

I was responding to a post that said “This is not found in the rite”, but at the same time it is not prohibited by the rite either.

An assembly being invited to pray over the elect does not seem harmful or ‘aliturgical’ to me. Nor does it seem like the priest is being usurped in some way.

Show me where in the rubrics your given permission to be so uncharitable.

Not uncharitable - simply pointing out the silliness of your argument.

It is that argument that has led to liturgical dancing - it’s not prohibited (until recently); the orans position for the Our Father - it’s not prohibited; the clown Masses - it’s not prohibited; gay union blessings - it’s not prohibited (at least until recently); etc., etc., etc., and all manner of ill conceived, ill implemented and sometimes worse innovations - all in the name that it’s not prohibited.

 

[johnnykins]

frommi:

johnnykins:

I was responding to a post that said “This is not found in the rite”, but at the same time it is not prohibited by the rite either.

An assembly being invited to pray over the elect does not seem harmful or ‘aliturgical’ to me. Nor does it seem like the priest is being usurped in some way.

Show me where in the rubrics your given permission to be so uncharitable.

Can the assembly pray via the “Wave”? Maybe some want to pray naked - is that prohibited? In the throes of ecstacy some folks call upon the Lord - is that prohibited during Mass? You want to decide what is “liturgical” and “aliturgical” it seems to me because you set yourself up as the one who determines what can and can’t be done - all in the name that it’s not prohibited.

Maybe you should let the Pope be Pope. I frankly find it easier to deal with the decisions of one Pope than millions. Rome says what should be - let’s not try to decide on our own that any innovation we like is OK as long as Frommi is comfortable that it’s not “aliturgical” if it’s not prohibited. At any time you may substitute “Fr.____” or “Sr. ____” or “the liturgical committee” for “Frommi” in the last sentence.

What’s uncharitable is to make arguments like yours that twist logic and lead to divisions in the Church.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

frommi:

You won’t find a prohibition on it either.

When one is following a RITE of the Church one is required to do and say what is in the RITE. Adding things between the lines is not what the spaces on the page are for.

 

[AWall]

Br. Rich SFO:

When one is following a RITE of the Church one is required to do and say what is in the RITE. Adding things between the lines is not what the spaces on the page are for.

Is there a place I can read the actual Rite? I’ve searched, but I don’t know if I am searching with the right words. The priest read from a binder and there were many stopping points for the choir to sing some jazzy number. Our sponsor said it seems different every year. I’d like to read the Rite.

Thank you,

Andrea

 

[MulusChristi]

m134e5:

It also looks like the congregation is sticking their hands out like a bunch of Nazis- imagine if someone with a strong anti-Catholic background went to Mass for the first time, but walked in late when everybody was doing that.

I’ve had this thought also, but I believe the Nazi salute was with the left hand. We use the right. I believe this was addressed in a thread a few months ago and it was in the Rite, but I’m not sure when the thread was.

 

[chicago]

I don’t see why priests can’t just say, “I invite you to join me in prayer” to the congregation, without having to ask everybody to extend a hand in “blessing”. This would accomplish the same thing and since the priest does stand in the place of the congregation (as well as Christ) he is effectively joining us, anyway via his blessing. That solves all.

 

[FrCorey]

AWall:

Is there a place I can read the actual Rite? I’ve searched, but I don’t know if I am searching with the right words. The priest read from a binder and there were many stopping points for the choir to sing some jazzy number. Our sponsor said it seems different every year. I’d like to read the Rite.

Thank you,

Andrea

most of the rites are not online.
I can email you a copy of it if you like?
Which parts would you like?

Fr Corey+