Smith wasn’t willing to die for his “wild story”. He was trying to escape and was killed when he was out gunned while jumping out a window. To be properly thought of as a martyr one has to actually FACE death defending their faith. I think it’s safe to assume Smith is not counted amoung true martyrs by any Christian faith..
So you think Joseph Smith made up this wild story and was willing to die over it?
At any time he could have said, ok, I made it all up, dont kill me.
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Mr. Hord,Joseph smith might as well have told us about the iphone. Call it a back handed prophecy.
If you could see them would you believe or would you have to hold them and use them to believe?
This is a pretty bold assertion, and the onus is on **you **to back up this assertion. Show us evidence that the Liahona was a digital compass and GPS style navigation system, complete with the capability to text message with supernatural beings.The Liahona was a digital compass and GPS style navigation system with mobile text messaging from God.
I have read these verses hundreds of times, even after the iphone was released and never once did I think that the Liahona was a spherical iphone. The Liahona is described as follows in verse 10, “a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one pointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.” Sounds more like a cross between a compass, astrolabe and crystal ball.no one has yet to read 1 nephi 16:10-30 and deny that the said device was not navigation and text messaging regardless of if the device was real or not
Are you serious? Do you REALLY not know your lds history?Where did you get that version of the story?
What I find strange about that story is that he had a gun in jail.
How does that happen?
What kind of jail has a window you can jump out of?
And I noticed that you didnt mention a mob of people at the jail or raiding it.
Smith just shot at a guy for no reason?
While he was behind bars?
Then why isn’t the Liahona on display for all to see at Temple Square in Salt Lake City?Heavenly father wanted us to see the Liahona.
We can recogniIze a device that recieves messages and has two pointers, one pointing the way we should go.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Are you serious? Do you REALLY not know your lds history?
js was in jail. He was allowed, with Hyrum and others, to be in a second-floor room in the jail.
He was in jail for breaking the law. He claimed he was going “as a lamb” but he had an illegal gun.
A mob appeared and was coming up the stairs. js opened the door and fired blidly down the stairs. He then ran to the window in an effort to escape, leaving his friends to face the mob. He was shot by those outside on the ground as he was climbing out the window.
He was not a martyr. He was a criminal who was shot being a coward.
No one here claimed that Joseph Smith actually killed anyone, just that he had an illegal weapon and shot blindly down the stairs. According to the entry in wikipedia regarding the death of Joseph Smith, he hit John Wills, William Voras and Willam Gallagher. It was John Taylor who wrote that he heard two men were killed by Joseph Smith.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Name anyone Joseph Smith killed.
Never said he killed anyone. I said he had an illegal weapon and fired blindly into a mob.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Name anyone Joseph Smith killed.
not just private property…it was a newspaper printing press. js was busy violating the Constitution and Freedom of the PressNo one here claimed that Joseph Smith actually killed anyone, just that he had an illegal weapon and shot blindly down the stairs. According to the entry in wikipedia regarding the death of Joseph Smith, he hit John Wills, William Voras and Willam Gallagher. It was John Taylor who wrote that he heard two men were killed by Joseph Smith.
You do know why Joseph Smith ended up in jail don’t you? He incited a mob to destroy private property.
I heard that. Since when do you kill a guy who can afford to pay for what ever was broken?No one here claimed that Joseph Smith actually killed anyone, just that he had an illegal weapon and shot blindly down the stairs. According to the entry in wikipedia regarding the death of Joseph Smith, he hit John Wills, William Voras and Willam Gallagher. It was John Taylor who wrote that he heard two men were killed by Joseph Smith.
You do know why Joseph Smith ended up in jail don’t you? He incited a mob to destroy private property.
In addition to violating the Constitution, freedom of the press and private property rights, Joseph Smith also violated many women. Hence, his inciting the mob that destroyed the Nauvoo Expositor’s printing press that was exposing these violations.not just private property…it was a newspaper printing press. js was busy violating the Constitution and Freedom of the Press
Yes…and this was AFTER he had approached William Law about wife swappingJoseph Smith also violated many women. Hence, his inciting the mob that destroyed the Nauvoo Expositor’s printing press that was exposing these violations.
Perhaps things like that happen when that same man is also coercing women into adulterous relationships and offering wife swapping to others.I heard that. Since when do you kill a guy who can afford to pay for what ever was broken?
They had courts back then and there is more to the story but you know that too.
Are you saying your God is an advanced extraterrestrial alien who chose to share advanced alien technology with Lehi & Co.?smith invented gps and text messaging? Do you have proof for this?
Then why don’t you answer the questions in Tarquin’s initial post? You never actually addressed the questions in the initial post.Im not here to talk about stuff you guys want to muddy the water with.
How bout you not talk about Joseph smith in bad ways and I wont talk about your problem area’s either.
The issue at hand is the Liahona.
“Lehi is a great prophet. The experiences he had in fulfilling the mission God gave him parallel those of other prophets. He shows the devotion, the openness to the Lord’s will, and the determination to follow the Lord’s direction that we look for in the ideal of a prophet.”
“Dreams and visions dominate Lehi’s life; he is called by the Lord in a vision in which he sees Christ and the twelve apostles (1 Ne. 1:6–14.) In another prophecy he foretells the Babylonian captivity, the ministry of the Messiah, and the preaching of the gospel to the gentiles. (1 Ne. 10:3–14.) Even the journey into the wilderness was commanded in a dream. (1 Ne. 2:1–3.) In other dreams Lehi was commanded to send his sons back to Jerusalem to obtain the plates of Laban and later to persuade Ishmael and his sons and daughters to join them. (1 Ne. 3:2–4, 1 Ne. 7:1–2.)”"Nephi makes it clear that no matter how close he himself came to the Lord, the revelation that dealt with where the family should go came to Lehi. The Lord spoke to Lehi “by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his journey into the wilderness.” (1 Ne. 16:9) "
“Lehi was a strong man, not because he relied on his own wealth, power, or talents, but because he relied completely upon the Lord”
In light of the Mormon view of prophets generally, and of Lehi in particular, as expressed by Marshall R. Craig in an official church publication (“official” by sanction of the leaders of the church, regardless of whether it is “official” in the secular sense of being voted on, or the organizational sense of having been installed between the pages of one or another set of scriptures, or the imprimatur sense of a publicly pronounced vatical sanctification), where did Lehi go wrong? Why did Lehi falter as no other prophet did? Why did Lehi, the great and powerful prophet leading an entire nation (in embryonic form) across dreaded seas, crumble in his faith to the point that he could not continue to follow the dictates and inspiration of the invisible God without some visible, material, mechanical tool for his “inspiration” and “guidance.” A combination compass-ouiji board-(magic eight-ball, the incomparable “Liahona”?
- Marshall R. Craig (1977) professor of English at Brigham Young University, high councilor in the Springville Utah Kolob Stake.
Does his need for a tool to guide him and to tell him the Lord’s will suggest spiritual weakness on Lehi’s part?
Does God’s need for a physical tool to guide a prophet suggest that God has restricted powers of communication with his chosen prophets?
The “faithful” answer must be something like, “God can do what he wants. Besides, this way, he was certain to get his message across. Besides, Lehi’s children were losing faith; they needed something they could believe in if they were to follow their father into the wilderness. Etc.” But what is the reasonable answer? What objective reason is there, that would apply in every such case? Moses had to lead a people for forty years. If anyone needed a ball to lead a people into, through, and across a wilderness, it was him. Moses’ family doubted him, too, yet God didn’t give him a magic ball to convince them of his leadership role. Now, I admit, according to the Old Testament, Elijah got a chariot. Whether literal or figurative, that was a means for he himself to go somewhere, not to tell others where to go, nor what was on the Lord’s mind. Elijah himself spoke for the Lord; the chariot did not. He had a mantle, and handed that down, but that was a symbol of his office, not a tool for conveying messages or telling people where to go.
Lehi was led mostly by “dreams and visions.” His propheteers can only hope he interpreted them correctly, and hope they, too, are not crediting them with more weight than they can logically, even faithfully, support.
Is what possible? Please specify so someone can actually answer your question. Still waiting to hear your answers to the questions in the OP.Is it possible?