Let’s talk about sex

[Marco-polo22]

Hi there! I am reaching out for some help on the sex conversation. For some background my partner and I have been dating for 5+ years and aren’t yet engaged because they want to have life figured out. By that I mean a degree, a job, and if the idea of a child is awesome or not. That’s them. For me I am a recent convert (this pastor Easter!) and I have found so much peace in my life since being back in a religion. When I was younger I used to be pentacostal (not baptized) and made myself a promise on no sex till marriage.
—Well that fell to the wayside when I met my partner. They are so amazing! I love everything about them! But they are a cafeteria catholic and view the physical intimacy a must before marriage. I was persuaded and blinded by love only lasting a year and half before we did the deed. It’s kind of ironic that I lost the ring I used to symbolize that promise and it still breaks my heart because it was a little apple with a ruby gemstone and was gold and so pretty and fitting for me being a teacher!
Now that I have come back to the Catholic Church I want to continue with this promise and wait until we are married. The only issue is I have a hard time telling my partner that this is what I want. I brought it up once before being baptized but I was having birth control issues (iud and a lot of body changes that aren’t needed/appreciated) and they thought it was that. Then again recently I brought it up but when I saw their reaction I changed my story and said I was just thinking and that’s all.
—Well I have been thinking and I do want this. We are young yes but there are things that I feel we need to work on as a couple like the idea of children and other things. I am blessed because we don’t fight often and when we do we resolve it but this is one I am scared of having. Their reasoning for continuing is we have done it for so long and will be married soon. My reasoning is that I made this promise and I want to keep it and I don’t like the way I’ve been feeling when it comes to sex. He has been commenting on how sexy I am in lingerie but I want to be called beautiful or pretty. I feel like I rarely hear that. As well I don’t like his use of masterbation and porn and think it is so degrading. I know I used to watch it but even before I converted I had a change of heart towards it. As well with my health scare he wouldn’t be stressed every time my period is slightly late and I wouldn’t have to keep putting medicine in my body. I understand he would be mad and he has every right to be so because I am taking away something so beautiful but it should be for a marriage and not use long term partners. Plus I am getting tired of hearing the I don’t know answer when I ask when he wants to get engaged. I want to sooner since we are graduating in a year and its been so long. So long. I know this shouldn’t be a reason but it is for me because he is dragging his feet’s and we are both 24 or older for crying out loud!
—Anyway how I tell the, this and make sure that I don’t change my mind when I see them or back out because I’m scared of their reaction?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Did you discuss your situation with your priest or RCIA director when you were in the process of converting to Catholic (or reverting, it’s not clear which it was exactly since you said “convert” but then said “come back to the Catholic Church”)?

Did one of these people not tell you or teach you that sex before marriage is a grave sin in the Catholic Church?

If you’re going to be a member of the Church, you need to abide by its teachings. And your partner needs to accept this, or you should be looking for someone else who will.

 

[Marco-polo22]

Yes we did discuss it.
Sorry for the confusion! I was never baptized but studied in a catholic school system. There was a time in my life where I didn’t believe that there was a god and I have since come back but I am brand new to being baptized and such!
Even though we discussed my partner still refuses to listen and doesn’t think it is a sin because it was written at a time when people were super fertile and so the church is dated.
I should note we have t had sex due to birth control reasons and not because of my faith

 

[alphonsus1]

I want to give some helpful advice.

The morality of an act is determined by circumstances, intentions, and the object. Circumstances are the consequences of your act. Intentions are the motivations of the actor. The object is inherent to the act itself, an ordering towards a basic human good for which the intellect recognizes to be in conformity with a true good, God’s will.

Nothing can transform something evil by its very nature (the object) into something moral.

So when your partner tells you “pre-marital sex is okay,” say “Let us use the Truth in determining right and wrong. Just like a mathematician starts from Truths, so too, we need to start from True premises. There is a Moral Object, which is deprived of a human good, for which no circumstance regardless of how dire justifies it. Evil can never be done so good may come of it. Period. Therefore, nothing, no matter how good a circumstance or how upright an intention, can justify messed up evil.”

If he says “People needed to be super fertile in the past,” say “Impeding the functioning of a generative faculty where that generative faculty itself is suitable for procreation is deprived of the good of procreation and can never be justified, ever. Period. It could not be justified to save the lives of 7 billion people from the most torturous deaths in any horror movie, and is certainly not justified for the much more trivial (in comparison) circumstance of different fertilities today than in the past. Exceptions don’t exist to exceptionless rules.”

 

[TheLittleLady]

If you are not on the same page now with your moral precepts, your world view, do not expect marriage to change it. Can you live with him having his views not change at all for the next 60 years? Raising your children to believe as he does, and that mom is just kinda a religious nutter? (You are a teacher, you know that you cannot fool kids into thinking two opposite things are both right).

Does your parish offer a Formed.org subscription? If it does, watch both of the the “Beloved” series videos, watch and discuss with your boyfriend. After doing these virtual retreats, if you are not on the same page, think long and hard about walking away.

 

[dollysro]

I am a little confused.
On the one hand, he tells you it’s ok to have sex because you’ll be married soon.
On the other, when you ask when he says “I don’t know.”
Never mind, I’m not.
Sweetie, as long as you give in, there will likely be no marriage. Especially for one who doesn’t know if the idea of a child is awesome or not.
When you see his reaction you change your story. Why?
Be your own person, and be it well
Come back and let us know how you are doing.

 

[Clementine14]

The only issue is I have a hard time telling my partner that this is what I want. I brought it up once before being baptized but I was having birth control issues (iud and a lot of body changes that aren’t needed/appreciated) and they thought it was that. Then again recently I brought it up but when I saw their reaction I changed my story and said I was just thinking and that’s all.

I think it’s a big problem if you’ve been with someone for five years and still can’t be open and honest with him, and talk to him about major concerns. You want to marry him, but married couples need to be able to talk! Yes, it would be a change for him- but any man worth marrying will care about how you feel and respect it.

Five years is a long time to be with someone who doesn’t even know if he wants children. How much longer does he need to “figure out life”? Wanting to have a stable job is one thing, but he’s avoiding settling down with you and you’re allowing him to do so. You can’t change what he wants (or doesn’t, or doesn’t know) but you can decide how much longer you are willing to wait for him to figure it out.

 

[tafan2]

Plus I am getting tired of hearing the I don’t know answer when I ask when he wants to get engaged.

Why pay for the meal when you can eat for free? 5 years, he doesn’t know about getting married, but wants sex to continue? Regardless of the moral aspect, move on, you are being used.

 

[Viki63]

Regardless of the moral aspect, move on, you are being used.

Sadly, I have to agree with this.
You are scared to discuss the issue with him. He doesn’t want to commit to becoming engaged or setting a date. He’s not sure he wants children.

And you know, I hope, that a Catholic needs to be open to life, and birth control is not allowed. You can use natural family planning, which is pretty effective, but nothing is 100%. How will he react when you get pregnant?
Please find someone who will respect you and your beliefs and not use you.
God bless.

 

[Anicette]

no, it is not too late to correct your life and resume continence until marriage.
It is a question of morality. Conversion is never too late if we are still alive. It is also a question of self esteem for yourself.
But it can be, and many times must be life-changing.

are your partner can understand it? You have to decide that you stopped, even if he disagree. It can leads to him breaking the relationship. Or he can accepts but push all the questions surrounding marriage that may come and just wait desperatly until marriage. Or maybe you can both life it well and prepared your marriage witjout missing any important discussion/decisions, as it should be.

If you are living together and are mutually dependant, it can be more complicated to do a free choice…

 

[Trident_H]

You’re in trouble here.

Right out of the gate.

Let’s try this on for size. Let’s say there was something your guy really, really wanted? Let’s say you’ve known he’s wanted it for years? But now lets say you’re finally in a place where you can give it to him in full.

Would you drag your heels? Or would you go for it?

I think you’ve got a guy who likes your body, sure. But is he in it for your spirit? For your heart? For your deep self? I mean does he think of you half as much as you seem to think of him?

He’s got you doing stuff you don’t want to do and he’s putting off doing the main and proper thing that you want. In the past we used to call it making you an honest woman. But he’s not interested enough to take the plunge? I think you now understand why sex is best held off until after commitments get made. I think you see it pretty clearly. Because those who don’t make commitments won’t make them. And now those who don’t need to make them won’t make them either.

I think it’s time you started laying out the ground rules. No more sex until marriage.

Let’s find out how fast he makes a decision on this front, hey?

Peace MP. And good luck.

 

[JMMJ]

I disagree with those here who say your boyfriend is just using you. If you have been togetther for five years, that means he has endured the good, the bad, and the ugly (no offense) as you have also seen it in him. He is still with you. That isn’t what a “user” typically does. A “user” will typically move on once things become less than appetizing all the time.

I think your boyfriend has a different value system than the one you have. Even if you set religion aside, I think this is true. You want children…him, not so sure (as an example).

You have invested 5 years in a relationship with someone who isn’t on the same page with you with regards to your value systems. My advice is this: If you want to marry someone, make sure your value systems are on the same page. If not, you will be setting yourself up for a lifetime of misery. If you have children together, they will spend a lot of time being both miserable and confused. Life will not be calm and peaceful in a household with two parents who don’t have similar ideas of right and wrong.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Life will not be calm and peaceful in a household with two parents who don’t have similar ideas of right and wrong.

When two parents DO have similar ideas of right and wrong there can be stormy times, but, that shared foundation will bring them through.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Be careful because it is harder to escape once you get married.

 

[Marco-polo22]

I don’t know what to do anymore. We talked and they aren’t happy and o feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. We will be living together in the fall with family due to money issues on everyone’s part and they brought up how if we do this that I don’t want to share a bed (like actually sleep) with them anymore and that this would break us up.
I just don’t know what to do. Before o converted we were on the same mindset for most everything with children being the only issue but they are coming around to wanting one. And now it feels like I am being forced between this person I have spent so long with and a truly love and have built my life with and my faith that they have but aren’t as strong in. I know there is the idea of getting married young but they don’t want that. They want the big wedding with everyone and it’s not that I don’t want that. But I would rather be married sooner than later. Basically I don’t know what to do anymore and I don’t know who to turn to because I’m the only religious person in my family.
I have cried a lot over this talk but what’s most frustrating is that they says they’ll respect my choices but that they don’t think we would make it

 

[Marco-polo22]

I’m so confused! I don’t have anyone in my life who I can talk to (the priest is away for a couple weeks to be with family) and I just don’t know.
I change my reaction because this is the person I have spent the past few years building my life with. Before I was baptized we were on the same page for most things and now I am seeing that me being baptized is causing more issues than it should. I went in to this for them and wanting to learn more about their religion and I adore it. Everything about it I love.
We talked and they are saying that they respect my decision but don’t know if we can last. I want to bring up getting married earlier than later to try and navigate this but I know they’ll say no they want a job and a big white wedding and I don’t.
I said it bélier but I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place because of all of this and I sometime wish I could take it all back.

 

[Elf01]

We talked and they are saying that they respect my decision but don’t know if we can last.

That’s not respect. He’s trying to emotionally blackmail you.

Dump him.

I know it’s difficult but if it was your sister or friend writing this what would you advise them to do?

 

[TheLittleLady]

You have a Diocese, google will help you find the number and website. There is a “Family Life” office or something with a similar name. Call them, there is someone who will talk with you.

If you were my best friend, I would look you in the eye and say “Marco, if this man does not want you to put God first, if he does not put God first, you do not want to attempt marriage”.

 

[dollysro]

I understand you’re confused, hence the questions–GREAT first step!

I change my reaction because this is the person I have spent the past few years building my life with. – does he change his reaction in responding to you? Or are you trying to fit his mold of what you should do/be/say?

Before I was baptized we were on the same page for most things and now I am seeing that me being baptized is causing more issues than it should.

Or maybe it is showing you more than you thought it would.

I went in to this for them and wanting to learn more about their religion and I adore it.

Best if you do it for yourself.

We talked and they are saying that they respect my decision but don’t know if we can last

That’s not respect, that’s an ultimatum

I want to bring up getting married earlier than later to try and navigate this but I know they’ll say no they want a job and a big white wedding and I don’t.

He is not going to budge on this and you should settle.

I said it bélier but I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place because of all of this and I sometime wish I could take it all back.

You’re not stuck, except for your own fear of losing him which is an awful place to be. He knows this and plays it for all it’s worth. Don’t take it back. You love it.

Hang in there. You said you are a teacher. What would you tell a student to do? Stick to their convictions or give in?

 

[Marco-polo22]

Looking at yours one by one:
I think I’m trying to fit the mood of who I was before and I don’t know if he knows the religious side of my now!
I did go into rcia for him but it ended up being amazing for me! There was a reason God told me to do this now
I didn’t think it would be an ultimatum. I thought he was saying it more so as our lives are so mingled now with sex but that does make sense. We will be moving in together in September to my mothers place. It will save us each +$1000 a month!

My plan is to visit him in July (long distance) and bring the book on sex and marriage that was recommended to me. Then we can talk more about this all. I do want to talk about our timelines on the next 1, 3, and 5 years too.