Magic solution to violence: "No religion", says atheism

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First off, most of these popular atheists offer a solution to violence that is simply too far fetched. They basically say, “If there were no religion…” the world would be a better place. Most of these are asserting the world would be much more peaceful without religion. That is debatable and so they debate. But it is also extremely useless. Do they really think they are doing any damage at all to religion by sitting on TV in a fine suit while saying the Sunnis and Shiites would be better off if they were not religious. Who is going to go there and spend their life converting any of them to atheism? Charles Dawkins? Sam Harris? Those guys are only brave enough to go on TV so far. I can offer a magic solution that is just as useful. “Everybody should agree and believe the same thing.” World peace!
 
Secular wars and secular societal norms have cost far more lives than religious wars and policies. 55 million abortions in the U.S. since Roe V Wade. There is no rebuttal to that number.

Religion is responsible for the creation of our free society, hospitals, schools, soup kitchens, innumerable charities and science itself.
 
Not sure who Charles Dawkins is… 😉

It’s an incredibly naive a-historical position. History teaches us that this is false.
 
People who know what the answer to everything really, really is have a lot to answer for but you don’t have to be religious to be one of them.
 
First off, most of these popular atheists offer a solution to violence that is simply too far fetched. They basically say, “If there were no religion…” the world would be a better place.
Yeah, because atheists like Stalin, Mao and Mussolini were absolutely pacifistic souls 🤷
 
**We are a country with a Christian majority, yet we have armed ourselves with sufficient nuclear weapons to actually destroy our world.
I put up a thread “Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament” and got no agreement. After a few days the Moderator even took that thread down.

“No religion” might not be the answer to the end of violence, but the presence of religion doesn’t seem to be helping much either.
We are still set to blow ourselves off the face of the earth in the 21st century.

About all that I can say for "Religion"is that it gives a few of us a “heads up” on that reality.**
 
**We are a country with a Christian majority, yet we have armed ourselves with sufficient nuclear weapons to actually destroy our world.
I put up a thread “Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament” and got no agreement. After a few days the Moderator even took that thread down.

“No religion” might not be the answer to the end of violence, but the presence of religion doesn’t seem to be helping much either.
We are still set to blow ourselves off the face of the earth in the 21st century.

About all that I can say for "Religion"is that it gives a few of us a “heads up” on that reality.**
Religion doesn’t mean one group of people has to give another group the wholesale right to annihilate them. We have the right of self defense.
 
Yeah, because atheists like Stalin, Mao and Mussolini were absolutely pacifistic souls 🤷
Right. And those who just live like there’s no God (BLM, New Black Panthers, ISIS, KKK, list goes on) aren’t exactly reaching out to each other singing kumbaya around a campfire, either.
 
Yeah, because atheists like Stalin, Mao and Mussolini were absolutely pacifistic souls 🤷
Stalin was studying in Tbilisi. to be a priest. I don’t see how anyone can deny that religious differences have played a role in promoting some wars.
 
Stalin ruled a State that promoted atheism. So, all atheists are automatically peaceful because they are incapable of harming others? What god were the Bolsheviks dying for?

Much too simplistic.

Ed
 
I’m not sure which atheists you’re talking about so I don’t know where you got this idea that atheists think the sole source of violence is religion. No atheist that I’ve listened to or talked with has espoused such an extreme view. Even Charles Dawkins 😉
 
Religion doesn’t mean one group of people has to give another group the wholesale right to annihilate them. We have the right of self defense.
**Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament does not mean giving another country “the wholesale right to annihilate” the USA. In the first place, no country would be granted that right simply because the USA stood down its nuclear weapons. In the second place, if you are referring to “ability,” the Russians already have the necessary means to reduce the USA to ash. I think what you really mean is that, without a (so-called) deterrent, the Russians would automatically attack the USA with nuclear weapons. I see this response a lot to my idea of unilateral nuclear disarmament, and I do not feel that it is correct.

The Russians are just afraid of the USA as we are of them, and that is why they maintain and improve a strategic nuclear weapon delivery system. The only reason the Russians would have to launch a strategic nuclear strike against the USA would be if they believed that the USA was planning to do the same against them. It will come to that. The USA has no law on its books that prohibit its military from launching a nuclear first strike, and the Russians know that. Without a nuclear weapons capability, the USA would no longer be a threat to Russia, and they would have no reason to attack us.

CCC 2265 states: “Legitimate defense can not only be a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others.” However, in this special case, the “defence” itself is what presents the grave danger to both ourselves and the rest of humanity as well. WW III, a global nuclear war, is delineated in scripture. It is virtually carved in stone. The only way open to us to mitigate this unprecedented disaster is Unilaterally Nuclear Disarmament. We can live under the protection of a Russian nuclear umbrella. The alternative is simply to not be living at all.**
 
First off, most of these popular atheists offer a solution to violence that is simply too far fetched. They basically say, “If there were no religion…” the world would be a better place. Most of these are asserting the world would be much more peaceful without religion. That is debatable and so they debate. But it is also extremely useless. Do they really think they are doing any damage at all to religion by sitting on TV in a fine suit while saying the Sunnis and Shiites would be better off if they were not religious. Who is going to go there and spend their life converting any of them to atheism? Charles Dawkins? Sam Harris? Those guys are only brave enough to go on TV so far. I can offer a magic solution that is just as useful. “Everybody should agree and believe the same thing.” World peace!
I think you mean Richard Dawkins and I don’t believe any atheist says it is “magic” solution to the problem of violence in the world. If there was no Islam would the Middle East be a better place? No blasphemy laws would ensure people wouldn’t get murdered in the streets or imprisoned.
 
Stalin ruled a State that promoted atheism. So, all atheists are automatically peaceful because they are incapable of harming others? What god were the Bolsheviks dying for?

Much too simplistic.

Ed/QUOTE}

Really, using Stalin. Fallacy sir
 
First off, most of these popular atheists offer a solution to violence that is simply too far fetched. They basically say, “If there were no religion…” the world would be a better place. Most of these are asserting the world would be much more peaceful without religion.
“The atheists are for the most part impudent and misguided scholars who reason badly, and who not being able to understand the creation, the origin of evil, and other difficulties, have recourse to the hypothesis of the eternity of things and of inevitability….That was how things went with the Roman Senate which was almost entirely composed of atheists in theory and in practice, that is to say, who believed in neither a Providence nor a future life; this senate was an assembly of philosophers, of sensualists and ambitious men, all very dangerous men, who ruined the republic." (from Voltaire’s essay On Atheism).

Whatever crimes are committed in the name of God, vastly greater crimes have been committed in the name of Nogod.

Atheism in and of itself offer no spur for us to be better than our baser selves.

Religion offers every possible spur. A world without religion anywhere would be more savage than we can imagine.
 
**Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament does not mean giving another country “the wholesale right to annihilate” the USA. In the first place, no country would be granted that right simply because the USA stood down its nuclear weapons. In the second place, if you are referring to “ability,” the Russians already have the necessary means to reduce the USA to ash. I think what you really mean is that, without a (so-called) deterrent, the Russians would automatically attack the USA with nuclear weapons. I see this response a lot to my idea of unilateral nuclear disarmament, and I do not feel that it is correct.

The Russians are just afraid of the USA as we are of them, and that is why they maintain and improve a strategic nuclear weapon delivery system. The only reason the Russians would have to launch a strategic nuclear strike against the USA would be if they believed that the USA was planning to do the same against them. It will come to that. The USA has no law on its books that prohibit its military from launching a nuclear first strike, and the Russians know that. Without a nuclear weapons capability, the USA would no longer be a threat to Russia, and they would have no reason to attack us.

CCC 2265 states: “Legitimate defense can not only be a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others.” However, in this special case, the “defence” itself is what presents the grave danger to both ourselves and the rest of humanity as well. WW III, a global nuclear war, is delineated in scripture. It is virtually carved in stone. The only way open to us to mitigate this unprecedented disaster is Unilaterally Nuclear Disarmament. We can live under the protection of a Russian nuclear umbrella. The alternative is simply to not be living at all.**
The US and former USSR deployed ICBMs in 1959. I lived through the bulk of the Cold War. Even before the end of World War II, plans were drawn up for the defense of Western Europe since Soviet tanks, troops and other equipment, could have easily swept Westward. In March 1946, Winston Churchill delivered a speech that told the world an “Iron Curtain” had descended over the Soviet Union. In other words, Western Intelligence was unable to get reliable information about Russian plans, intentions, troop deployments, aircraft deployment and so on. Secret overflights using British and American (sometimes repainted) aircraft would begin in 1946 to get photo reconnaissance intelligence as far as they could get to find out what was going on. Some were shot down, but not acknowledged until decades later.

The entire history of the Cold War was dominated by a series of scenarios where the Russians were confirmed to be preparing an attack on the United States, and Western Europe, using atomic and later, Nuclear weapons. The Russians detonated their first atomic bomb in 1949, some several years before the CIA (formerly, the OSS) predicted they would be able to produce a working device. In 1950, a paperback book was published in the US. From the cover:

Title: How to Survive an Atomic Bomb, by Richard Gerstel, CONSULTANT, Civil Defense Office. Just above the title: If there’s ATOMIC WARFARE this book may save your life! On the Acknowledgments page, the author writes that he was encouraged to write the first draft of this book in 1948.

Unfortunately, since the US had dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, the world knew such weapons could be built. In 1962, US spy planes had spotted Russian missiles on the island of Cuba. Troops were immediately mobilized on the east coast and sent to Florida under total secrecy until they arrived. President Kennedy, in a televised address to the country, made it clear that an attack against the United States would result in an attack on the Soviet Union and an attack against Western Europe would be regarded as an attack against the United States and would draw the same response. Fortunately, President Kennedy, working with his brother, then US Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, worked out a solution to a crisis that could have resulted in World War III at that time.

Unilateral disarmament is not an option.

Ed
 

Unfortunately, since the US had dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, the world knew such weapons could be built. In 1962, US spy planes had spotted Russian missiles on the island of Cuba. Troops were immediately mobilized on the east coast and sent to Florida under total secrecy until they arrived. President Kennedy, in a televised address to the country, made it clear that an attack against the United States would result in an attack on the Soviet Union and an attack against Western Europe would be regarded as an attack against the United States and would draw the same response. Fortunately, President Kennedy, working with his brother, then US Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, worked out a solution to a crisis that could have resulted in World War III at that time.

Unilateral disarmament is not an option.
Ed
**

Thanks for the detailed reply. I lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis myself. The USA is a bona-fide democracy, and its citizens to have the power to elect leaders who would carry out Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament. So it certainly is an option. Your reply does not make clear why that would not be true, and also does not give any reasons why it is not desireable. The fact that the Cuban Crisis almost led to a global nuclear war would seem to support my idea.**
 
Whatever crimes are committed in the name of God, vastly greater crimes have been committed in the name of Nogod.

Atheism in and of itself offer no spur for us to be better than our baser selves.

Religion offers every possible spur. A world without religion anywhere would be more savage than we can imagine.
Correct. Atheism states no belief in god(s). That is all. I cannot think of anyone who screamed “This is for atheism” as they hurt someone. There is a name for this type of fallacy.
 
Yeah, because atheists like Stalin, Mao and Mussolini were absolutely pacifistic souls 🤷
“The Black Book of Communism” is a good resource for examining the millions of deaths caused by atheistic communism.
 
“The Black Book of Communism” is a good resource for examining the millions of deaths caused by atheistic communism.
I think you mean communism. No atheist I know talks about causing harm to others.
 
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