Mark 7:21-23 Unchastity/Fornications vs. Licentiousness/Lasciviousness: What distinction does Jesus make?

[ethereality]

Douay-Rheims Bible, Mark Chapter 7[/URL]”][21]
For from within out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
[22] Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within, and defile a man.

http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Mark&ch=7&v=49007014

”][21][/URL]
From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity, theft, murder,
[22] adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly.
[23] All these evils come from within and they defile.

Comparing the lists:

adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride,     foolishness
adultery,   unchastity,   murder,  theft,  greed,        malice,     deceit, licentiousness, envy,        blasphemy, arrogance, folly.

The DRB’s translation strikes me as superior here, except I’m not sure what “an evil eye” means – is it an idiom for ‘envy’ as the NAB asserts?

Jesus appears to be making a distinction with the words “fornications” and “lasciviousness”. I suppose he means with the latter when one allows his sexuality to go out of control (e.g. lust and enjoying it), but what is Jesus getting at with the former? At first glance, it appears that fornication is included as part of lasciviousness, but we see that Jesus is listing a different item each time – I don’t think it’s correct to say he just happens to list lust twice.

Could he be referring to lust with the latter, and “inappropriate sexual acts” with the former, e.g. temple prostitutions (they were religious, not just lustful, right?), or in our day, people who want to live together as if they were married but don’t want to get married from fear of commitment? Perhaps polygamy would also be included, if we understood it in a nuanced way that the man intends well, to differentiate it from lasciviousness (I understand Mohammedans have instruction that each wife must be treated equally, equal time and property must be given to both, each must be gone into separately), yet it’s wrong, nevertheless.

What are your thoughts? What does Jesus mean by “fornications” versus “lasciviousness” – or, even more ambiguously, “unchastity” versus “licentiousness”?

 

[PeterGStanley]

Its doesn’t make a difference what sin he described - its the lesson taught - Jesus points to the source of true defilement – evil desires which come from inside a person’s innermost being. Sin does not just happen from external forces. It first springs from the innermost recesses of our thoughts and intentions, from the secret desires which only the individual mind and heart can conceive.

 

[ethereality]

That much is clear, Mr. Stanley, although I might phrase your last sentence a bit differently. Yet I wish to have a greater understanding of this passage, so my question remains: It does make a difference knowing which sins he described, because with such perspective we may more clearly see how such sins are prevalent in our own culture today.

 

[PeterGStanley]

No it doesn’t.

 

[ethereality]

Does no one have any idea about the distinction Jesus is making between what the NABRE calls “unchastity” and “licentiousness”, what the DRB refers to as “fornications” and “lasciviousness”?

 

[centurionguard]

Comparing the lists:

adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride,     foolishness
adultery,   unchastity,   murder,  theft,  greed,        malice,     deceit, licentiousness, envy,        blasphemy, arrogance, folly.

The DRB’s translation strikes me as superior here, except I’m not sure what “an evil eye” means – is it an idiom for ‘envy’ as the NAB asserts?

Jesus appears to be making a distinction with the words “fornications” and “lasciviousness”. I suppose he means with the latter when one allows his sexuality to go out of control (e.g. lust and enjoying it), but what is Jesus getting at with the former? At first glance, it appears that fornication is included as part of lasciviousness, but we see that Jesus is listing a different item each time – I don’t think it’s correct to say he just happens to list lust twice.

Could he be referring to lust with the latter, and “inappropriate sexual acts” with the former, e.g. temple prostitutions (they were religious, not just lustful, right?), or in our day, people who want to live together as if they were married but don’t want to get married from fear of commitment? Perhaps polygamy would also be included, if we understood it in a nuanced way that the man intends well, to differentiate it from lasciviousness (I understand Mohammedans have instruction that each wife must be treated equally, equal time and property must be given to both, each must be gone into separately), yet it’s wrong, nevertheless.

What are your thoughts? What does Jesus mean by “fornications” versus “lasciviousness” – or, even more ambiguously, “unchastity” versus “licentiousness”?

I believe the Moral Ramifications of Church Laws governing against Fornications (“AND”). Licentiousness are far more outreaching than merely looking at it on the surface. It applies to both those leading a Single or Married Vocation.

Not only are the Sins Adultery and Masturbation part of what Jesus was referring to but also Sins against Chasity and Homosexuality, as well as Sins in Marriage against Fidelity and Fecundity. vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Sins against Licentiousness deals with Sexual Ethics ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfcertn.htm